The General Politics Thread

Goat

Islamic terrorism should be placed in a bracket with far-right terrorism and treated the same. Fascism is fascism is fascism, evil is evil is evil.

Bruce_Bitenfils

Noodz, this article is nice and all, but :

Madrid 2004 : 200+ dead, 1400+ injured
London 2005 : 56 dead, 700+ injured.
Other terrorists acts in Europe : much less than that.

What happened to Oslo yesterday looked like Madrid and London attacks, that's all.

edit : oh and let's not forget Moscow 2010 : 39 dead, 102 injured.

traptunderice

Bruce_Bitenfils wrote
looked like Madrid and London attacks, that's it.

seven people died from the blast and you're comparing it to the Madrid and London attacks? Yes, Muslims commit terrorist attacks but they don't have a monopoly on killing people. The OKC bombing was just as devastating as the Madrid and London attacks yet was a white guy. Jumping to conclusions that a Muslim did it is reckless and harmful to decent people, i.e., Muslims who have no desire to harm the West and enjoy participating within their own culture or Western culture and who are being harassed because experts can tell a Muslim attack when they see one or that the idea that muslims are the only one who blow shit up is such a prevalent idea contradictory to actual facts.

Bruce_Bitenfils

Trapt : at the time news started to think it was islamists (please, use the word "islamists", and not "muslims" when you're talking about attacks), we didn't know for sure how many people were killed in the blast. 5-7 was a first count.

stevelovesmoonspell

traptunderice wrote
Bruce_Bitenfils wrote
looked like Madrid and London attacks, that's it.
seven people died from the blast and you're comparing it to the Madrid and London attacks? Yes, Muslims commit terrorist attacks but they don't have a monopoly on killing people. The OKC bombing was just as devastating as the Madrid and London attacks yet was a white guy. Jumping to conclusions that a Muslim did it is reckless and harmful to decent people, i.e., Muslims who have no desire to harm the West and enjoy participating within their own culture or Western culture and who are being harassed because experts can tell a Muslim attack when they see one or that the idea that muslims are the only one who blow shit up is such a prevalent idea contradictory to actual facts.

The different motivations for the mass murder of individuals who represent a value system contrary to a more radical sect is more apt to be viewed with suspicion given the regularity of attacks, lack of spine with a complicit majority, and the very values of said ideology that promote violence to outsiders. This happens to be Islam in a nutshell, as the religion much like a contagion thrives on invading a thriving culture AKA the West and spreading itself into the lifesblood of it. We have already seen the evidence of this in Europe, where France and the U.K have had to curtail speech to suit these barbarians. They do not desire the same rights as us, they require special treatment and no criticism whatsoever of their turbonned demon Mohammed. When you refer to their own "Culture" do you mean the fact that want to establish their own courts, to treat their women and others they subject to their backward rule through forced marriage? I have never once seen an adequate response on your part or Zads in defense of the silent "majority" who permits these attacks, without policing them and getting rid of them if necessary to give what little positive reputation the backward religion has in the west.

Perhaps you're political correctness is the exact venue they need to propagate their bullshit here in the US.

Goat

What curtailment of speech has the UK had to have, pray tell? Maybe we should do more to tackle "cultural conservatism", since one of its adherents killed more people in Norway than Al-Qaida has in the past few years, and the ideological requirements of both groups are exactly the same? Our 'political correctness' - or refusal to blame an entire race/religion for the actions of a few - is exactly the sort of lifestyle that fascists, neo- and islamo-, hate and want to bring down. What do you mean by "our" culture?

traptunderice

stevelovesmoonspell wrote
the regularity of attacks, lack of spine with a complicit majority, and the very values of said ideology that promote violence to outsiders. This happens to be Islam in a nutshell, as the religion much like a contagion thrives on

Sounds oddly like neo-conservatism and capitalism these days as well. When do Christians police their own from ranting? Why do we so naturally disavow that Christians like Timothy McVeigh have nothing to do with "real" Christian values? How is the sexism and conservatism of Christianity get a free pass when it is just as bad in its perception of women but with a Western twist on it due to the tensions which feminism has created? I'll defend culture but not religion. Much of the negative aspects of Islam reside in the religion and not so much the everyday particular cultural characteristics of being Arabic as opposed to Iranian or Turkish.

cry_of_the_banshee

trapt, yer a piece of shit for trying make political hay out of this.
Take your hackery and please shove it up your ass.

traptunderice

cry of the banshee wrote
trapt, yer a piece of shit for trying make political hay out of this.Take your hackery and please shove it up your ass.

You act as if I'm the one who blamed Muslims for it within an hour of it happening. Would you have preferred I waited a week? The Right made political hay out of it when they fabricated an Islamist terrorist group to pin this on. I won't go so far to say that they misdirected blame to avoid a critique of the values they advocate which the attacker subscribed to because that isn't what happened. But they did blame innocent people, Muslims, for no reason practically instantaneously.

cry_of_the_banshee

traptunderice wrote
cry of the banshee wrote
trapt, yer a piece of shit for trying make political hay out of this.Take your hackery and please shove it up your ass.
You act as if I'm the one who blamed Muslims for it within an hour of it happening. Would you have preferred I waited a week? The Right made political hay out of it when they fabricated an Islamist terrorist group to pin this on. I won't go so far to say that they misdirected blame to avoid a critique of the values they advocate which the attacker subscribed to because that isn't what happened. But they did blame innocent people, Muslims, for no reason practically instantaneously.

Oh shut up... your whole trip has transcended mere nuisance to outright gauchery.
Congrats.

stevelovesmoonspell

Goat wrote
What curtailment of speech has the UK had to have, pray tell? Maybe we should do more to tackle "cultural conservatism", since one of its adherents killed more people in Norway than Al-Qaida has in the past few years, and the ideological requirements of both groups are exactly the same? Our 'political correctness' - or refusal to blame an entire race/religion for the actions of a few - is exactly the sort of lifestyle that fascists, neo- and islamo-, hate and want to bring down. What do you mean by "our" culture?

The west's values of free speech, tolerance, and openness with a regard to these bearded savages is antithetical to the most vitriolic of their extremist ideologues. What does death toll have to do with the fact that your government will jail upon the mere whimpering of these beared savages, and this is reflective solely upon your countries need to cave in on Western values. That is meant by our culture the fact that our openness to these bastards, is resulting in a slow but gradual declination of your urban centers resembling a bad street in Kandahar. The refusal to blame a religion is not the issue, so much as it is the adherents who will not police their own and rid the last bastion of actual positive views rational people hold for Islam. The mere fact that these spineless towelheads can open a court, and have it operate on the same level at times undoubtedly prosecuting European women and apostates and endowing punishments based on non-European law should be dire warning enough.

The_Annoying_Frenchman

cry of the banshee wrote
traptunderice wrote
cry of the banshee wrote
trapt, yer a piece of shit for trying make political hay out of this.Take your hackery and please shove it up your ass.
You act as if I'm the one who blamed Muslims for it within an hour of it happening. Would you have preferred I waited a week? The Right made political hay out of it when they fabricated an Islamist terrorist group to pin this on. I won't go so far to say that they misdirected blame to avoid a critique of the values they advocate which the attacker subscribed to because that isn't what happened. But they did blame innocent people, Muslims, for no reason practically instantaneously.
Oh shut up... your whole trip has transcended mere nuisance to outright gauchery.Congrats.

How does that weak-in-the-knee anwer respond to Trapt post?
I think you lost, Val. Take it like a übermensh, damnit!
:lol:

Karmakosmonaut

Goat wrote
What curtailment of speech has the UK had to have, pray tell?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/4687077/Bible-put-on-top-shelf-in-move-to-appease-Muslims.html

I'd say that's a good example of how utterly pervasive politically correct faggotry has become in the UK. I don't follow your internal politics that much, so forgive me for the slightly outdated article; however, if the current state of affairs in Belgium can be used as a benchmark, it can't have gotten better in the UK in the meantime.

Also, total lulz at "sexism and conservatism of Christianity get a free pass". If anything, the left here in Europe (including the major media) turns a blind eye exactly towards the muslim attitude towards such topics, while Christianity, as per usual since the French Revolution, still gets bashed over it despite constantly making concessions. Seriously, Trapt, you utterly naive marxist, come live in the suburbs of Paris or Brussels or Stockholm etc. for a year, it'll cure you of your 19th-century stupidity.

And lastly, as for Oslo: It was a freemason; nothing right-wing about him whatsoever.

traptunderice

cry of the banshee wrote
traptunderice wrote
cry of the banshee wrote
trapt, yer a piece of shit for trying make political hay out of this.Take your hackery and please shove it up your ass.
You act as if I'm the one who blamed Muslims for it within an hour of it happening. Would you have preferred I waited a week? The Right made political hay out of it when they fabricated an Islamist terrorist group to pin this on. I won't go so far to say that they misdirected blame to avoid a critique of the values they advocate which the attacker subscribed to because that isn't what happened. But they did blame innocent people, Muslims, for no reason practically instantaneously.
Oh shut up... your whole trip has transcended mere nuisance to outright gauchery.Congrats.

My whole tirade honestly has nothing to do with attacks but the general treatment of attacks as a whole by the media.

And as for Steve, our urban centers have been on the fucking decline since jobs were eliminated and the social nets which kept people off the streets were eliminated. Add in increased drug use and you'll realize the destitute aren't Muslims but ignored black and white folk. Rational Muslims can no better police the idiots in their masses than I can police the racist conservative bigots in America, trying to repeal abortion rights and refuse to recognize gays as humans and give the right to the sanctity of marriage.

stevelovesmoonspell

traptunderice wrote
stevelovesmoonspell wrote
the regularity of attacks, lack of spine with a complicit majority, and the very values of said ideology that promote violence to outsiders. This happens to be Islam in a nutshell, as the religion much like a contagion thrives on

Sounds oddly like neo-conservatism and capitalism these days as well. When do Christians police their own from ranting? Why do we so naturally disavow that Christians like Timothy McVeigh have nothing to do with "real" Christian values? How is the sexism and conservatism of Christianity get a free pass when it is just as bad in its perception of women but with a Western twist on it due to the tensions which feminism has created? I'll defend culture but not religion. Much of the negative aspects of Islam reside in the religion and not so much the everyday particular cultural characteristics of being Arabic as opposed to Iranian or Turkish.

It is a common misconception that Mcveigh was a Christian, as he has on quite a few statements with an accurate assertion seen religion as for the weak minded. So when you falsely state that Christianity which has indubitably had its share of wars, massacres, and deaths is somehow equal to the history of imperialism, suicide bomings, Fatwas, Jihad, and various other antihuman activities perpetrated by the Abrahamic trilogy of death is somewhat odd. In terms of politics, extreme ideologies in either sector when not weeded out by the larger majority or tolerated as a matter of course always will come with a massive human death toll. Neoconservatism as much as your hallowed Socialism are all responsible for tends of thousands of deaths, and the red herring of treatment of women with Christianity doesn't result in death or dismemberment at least not since the old testament, withstanding a few of the more extreme cults.

cry_of_the_banshee

The Annoying Frenchman wrote
cry of the banshee wrote
traptunderice wrote
cry of the banshee wrote
trapt, yer a piece of shit for trying make political hay out of this.Take your hackery and please shove it up your ass.
You act as if I'm the one who blamed Muslims for it within an hour of it happening. Would you have preferred I waited a week? The Right made political hay out of it when they fabricated an Islamist terrorist group to pin this on. I won't go so far to say that they misdirected blame to avoid a critique of the values they advocate which the attacker subscribed to because that isn't what happened. But they did blame innocent people, Muslims, for no reason practically instantaneously.
Oh shut up... your whole trip has transcended mere nuisance to outright gauchery.Congrats.
How does that weak-in-the-knee anwer respond to Trapt post?I think you lost, Val. Take it like a übermensh, damnit! :lol:

Another one that needs to just shut up. What's to win or lose in this ridiculous discussion? Like a child, you like baiting, and then watching arguments, don't you?
Alas, you're generally too much of a cowardly bitch to engage in them yourself.

traptunderice

Karmakosmonaut wrote
Seriously, Trapt, you utterly naive marxist, come live in the suburbs of Paris or Brussels or Stockholm etc. for a year, it'll cure you of your 19th-century stupidity.

I left behind Christianity and shifted towards Marxism after spending two weeks in the slums of Tijuana, working at an orphanage, and having grown up the son of a struggling farmer who died from the chemicals he was exposed to doing his jobs. Don't be condescending as if I don't know what it's like to struggle on the streets or as if I don't know what working people do. Naivete is not me.

Karmakosmonaut

stevelovesmoonspell wrote
and the red herring of treatment of women with Christianity doesn't result in death or dismemberment at least not since the old testament, withstanding a few of the more extreme cults.

Cult of Mary much? But hey, since I'm Belgian I should be cheering a religious creed instigated by a man who married a 7-year-old, no? :lol:

stevelovesmoonspell

traptunderice wrote
cry of the banshee wrote
traptunderice wrote
cry of the banshee wrote
trapt, yer a piece of shit for trying make political hay out of this.Take your hackery and please shove it up your ass.
You act as if I'm the one who blamed Muslims for it within an hour of it happening. Would you have preferred I waited a week? The Right made political hay out of it when they fabricated an Islamist terrorist group to pin this on. I won't go so far to say that they misdirected blame to avoid a critique of the values they advocate which the attacker subscribed to because that isn't what happened. But they did blame innocent people, Muslims, for no reason practically instantaneously.
Oh shut up... your whole trip has transcended mere nuisance to outright gauchery.Congrats.
My whole tirade honestly has nothing to do with attacks but the general treatment of attacks as a whole by the media.And as for Steve, our urban centers have been on the fucking decline since jobs were eliminated and the social nets which kept people off the streets were eliminated. Add in increased drug use and you'll realize the destitute aren't Muslims but ignored black and white folk. Rational Muslims can no better police the idiots in their masses than I can police the racist conservative bigots in America, trying to repeal abortion rights and refuse to recognize gays as humans and give the right to the sanctity of marriage.

Politicizing the issue is not something I was referring to, with the minor exception of referring to the laws. When you say Muslims cannot adequately police their own, one is stymied by the statistics of the Islamists being the minority. This is not an issue when it comes to seeing beyond the forest so to speak, as the MAJORITY makes it apparent that with their numbers they can do nothing, even when living in Europe's more affluent areas. Have you ever seen the protests in these cities, you see not just bearded turbonned Arab men, but college students, children, and women as well holding signs chanting Death to Europe, and generally making their hostile Anti-Western values known. If this is not a contradiction to your assessment, I'm not quite sure anything is adamant enough to shatter that political correctness. As for conditions in our own country these are things that have been a long time coming.

I leave that thought for another time..

Karmakosmonaut

traptunderice wrote
Karmakosmonaut wrote
Seriously, Trapt, you utterly naive marxist, come live in the suburbs of Paris or Brussels or Stockholm etc. for a year, it'll cure you of your 19th-century stupidity.
I left behind Christianity and shifted towards Marxism after spending two weeks in the slums of Tijuana, working at an orphanage, and having grown up the son of a struggling farmer who died from the chemicals he was exposed to doing his jobs. Don't be condescending as if I don't know what it's like to struggle on the streets or as if I don't know what working people do. Naivete is not me.

Okay, so you lost your naiveté after two weeks in Tijuana. :lol:

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