The General Politics Thread

North_From_Here

noodles wrote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9SOVzMV2bchaha

Fascinating link, noodles. Sadly, Bush seems like one of the weakest presidents in US history. Many of his fundamental judgements may have been pretty sound, but I'm thinking the historical record will show just how firmly his presidency was controlled by cronies from his father's administration.

Wishes I could unsee colorlines.com
Thanks Goat, thanks for that. :lol:

And as I've said before, Romney wants to confront everyone across the globe at once, at least that is what those whispering in his ear want. Regarding foreign policy, he will be like W on steroids: another governor with no real conception of how the US can stop overreaching and deescalate its increasingly burdensome global commitments. And worse than Bush because Romney really believes Russia is America's greatest enemy.

Goat

We are not impressed with this Romney fellow, America.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19007127">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19007127</a>

C_Chulainn

Johnson's full of it. The olympics benefit no one but an elite group of Londoners.

Goat

Fridge agreeing with the Adam Smith Institute, what's the world coming to? :wink:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.adamsmith.org/research/articles/these-olympic-games-are-nothing-to-be-proud-of">http://www.adamsmith.org/research/artic ... e-proud-of</a>

Meanwhile, Jeremy Hunt (British secretary of state for culture, olympics, media and sport, and possibly a corrupt son of a gun ) is having bell-end problems...

<a class="postlink" href="http://insider.thomsonreuters.com/link.html?cn=uid343617&cid=939982&shareToken=MzpkNzkwOWQ1MS1jZGJkLTQ2MTgtYjE2NC0xMTMwODFkMWZkZjY%3D">http://insider.thomsonreuters.com/link. ... MWZkZjY%3D</a>

Mike

Goat wrote
We are not impressed with this Romney fellow, America.<a class="postlink" href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19007127">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19007127</a>

I'm sure their view has eroded even further now that Paul Ryan has been chosen as Mitt's running mate.

Goat

Raven wrote
Goat wrote
We are not impressed with this Romney fellow, America.<a class="postlink" href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19007127">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19007127</a>
I'm sure they're view has eroded even further now that Paul Ryan has been chosen as Mitt's running mate.

At least he hasn't insulted us... yet!

North_From_Here

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/egypts-morsi-orders-retirement-of-defense-minister-chief-of-staff-names-vp/2012/08/12/a5b26402-e497-11e1-8f62-58260e3940a0_story.html

The Brotherhood has struck at the military leadership in Egypt. I'm not surprised, but somehow I doubt this improves the situation for the remaining Coptic Christians. On the other hand, maybe this will generate the political capital for the Brotherhood to do more for the Coptics and freedom of religion generally. I won't hold my breath though.

traptunderice

emperorblackdoom wrote
On the other hand, maybe this will generate the political capital for the Brotherhood to do more for the Coptics and freedom of religion generally. I won't hold my breath though.

Fingers crossed.

Goat

This is interesting.

It's convenient for liberals to cast Rep. Ryan as an Ayn Rand apostle, for her ideas are held by a small minority of Americans; and it is convenient for some on the right to play up his affinity for Rand, both because she has a well-deserved reputation for being uncompromising, a quality the Tea Party likes, and because some of the insights in Atlas Shrugged do in fact resonate in this era of decadent political elites, immoral collusion between big business and government, and economic stagnation. But neither horrified liberals nor hopeful libertarians should fool themselves into believing that Rep. Ryan would govern America according to the ideals of Ayn Rand.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/08/if-paul-ryan-were-an-atlas-shrugged-character-hed-be-a-villain/261036/">http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... in/261036/</a>

Tehom

There isn't much else to say about Ryan, he is a safe cookie cutter republineocon that the Repub establishment created to attempt to appease the Tea party and the Libertarian wing of the Republican party. No serious conservative or liberty minded individual takes a guy who voted for TARP and the wars as a fiscal hawk. Fuck him and that milque toast magic underpants man

Karmakosmonaut

traptunderice wrote
emperorblackdoom wrote
On the other hand, maybe this will generate the political capital for the Brotherhood to do more for the Coptics and freedom of religion generally. I won't hold my breath though.
Fingers crossed.

A marxist hoping for the wellbeing of Christians?

Like hell the Brotherhood will respect the Coptics. On the same note, can't wait until you Yanks invade Syria to liberate the country from its secular government and allow those friendly muslim fundamentalist rebels to occupy the political void you leave in your wake so they can more vigorously kill or drive off the sizeable Christian communities of Syria. As they have been doing for the past months. Hmm, perhaps there are some parallels with your idea of proletarian revolution :wink:

traptunderice

Karmakosmonaut wrote
traptunderice wrote
emperorblackdoom wrote
On the other hand, maybe this will generate the political capital for the Brotherhood to do more for the Coptics and freedom of religion generally. I won't hold my breath though.
Fingers crossed.
A marxist hoping for the wellbeing of Christians?

In Cairo, one of the coptics' source of income is collecting trash and it's been that way for hundreds of years. Yet now their whole way of life is being screwed up by the introduction of private companies taking over garbage collection. The Coptic recycled a lot of stuff to receive money and resources, yet now the private company neither recycles nor pays the coptics the same that they would have been making. It ruins lives and forces them to struggle to afford living. That shit is fucked up whether you're dumb enough to believe a man came back to life after three days or not.

Goat

I'm not really sure what to say to that. You'd rather this group went on making a living from the rubbish heap than a private firm took it over, because they've been doing it a long time? Funny definition of 'ruining lives', when that's a barely sustainable means of existence in the first place... What if it was women who were doing it, wouldn't you support this as progress and a step towards them becoming equal with the rest of the people there?

Not my area of expertise, is Egypt and its minorities, but come on.

Tehom

traptunderice wrote
Karmakosmonaut wrote
traptunderice wrote
emperorblackdoom wrote
On the other hand, maybe this will generate the political capital for the Brotherhood to do more for the Coptics and freedom of religion generally. I won't hold my breath though.
Fingers crossed.
A marxist hoping for the wellbeing of Christians?
In Cairo, one of the coptics' source of income is collecting trash and it's been that way for hundreds of years. Yet now their whole way of life is being screwed up by the introduction of private companies taking over garbage collection. The Coptic recycled a lot of stuff to receive money and resources, yet now the private company neither recycles nor pays the coptics the same that they would have been making. It ruins lives and forces them to struggle to afford living. That shit is fucked up whether you're dumb enough to believe a man came back to life after three days or not.

Traditions come and go and if these guys had any sort of common sense, instead of bitching about how evil the west is why not change with the times and adapt to maintain their livelihood? Its life either adapt or die, maybe they'd even make a decent amount of they start to work for these evil "private companies". The second half of your statement is unknowable, and even if they magically paid them "less" than what is already a meagre subsistence mode of living (which you still shill for) these people can still incorporate and make their own business to compete in a free market. There is nothing fucked up about the situation, its life.

traptunderice

Goat wrote
I'm not really sure what to say to that. You'd rather this group went on making a living from the rubbish heap than a private firm took it over, because they've been doing it a long time? Funny definition of 'ruining lives', when that's a barely sustainable means of existence in the first place... What if it was women who were doing it, wouldn't you support this as progress and a step towards them becoming equal with the rest of the people there?Not my area of expertise, is Egypt and its minorities, but come on.

I don't feel like the uprooting of tight-knit communities and the elimination of an indigenous way of life as a step forward in progress, especially when the foreign private company does a worse job. The Coptics recycle 75% of what they collect, where the private company barely reaches 20%.

<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zabbaleen">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zabbaleen</a>

Paying people less than a living wage, recycling less and eliminating a way of life would sound like a shitty situation regardless of whether they are women or a small community of both genders. "Becoming equal" isn't going to happen through becoming destitute and impoverished.

@[deleted]: They don't make a decent amount when they work for the evil private companies. They can't start their own companies when the government signs monopolizing contracts with global corporations.

Goat

Their situation currently is shitty though, I think you're romanticising it a bit, particularly talking about a living wage... But you're right to criticise, the problem is the government awarding the monopoly rather than the market itself however.

traptunderice

Goat wrote
Their situation currently is shitty though, I think you're romanticising it a bit, particularly talking about a living wage... But you're right to criticise, the problem is the government awarding the monopoly rather than the market itself however.

The market not having any quality control standards, such as sustainability or recycling, though is quite a big issue. Romanticizing it a bit? These people got by on what they did. It's like coal mining. You don't romanticize being stuck in a coal mine and catching the black lung. You praise the community and culture that develops out of these people's awful working conditions and how they struggle through it.

Tehom

traptunderice wrote
Goat wrote
Their situation currently is shitty though, I think you're romanticising it a bit, particularly talking about a living wage... But you're right to criticise, the problem is the government awarding the monopoly rather than the market itself however.
The market not having any quality control standards, such as sustainability or recycling, though is quite a big issue. Romanticizing it a bit? These people got by on what they did. It's like coal mining. You don't romanticize being stuck in a coal mine and catching the black lung. You praise the community and culture that develops out of these people's awful working conditions and how they struggle through it.

Yeah, its not as a market can revolutionize working conditions, how else could they get by without subjecting themselves to government regulations that tell them how to do everything? :rolleyes: These individuals can control their own destiny even in spite of their poverty, and a market is the best way to do so and improve their own condition. Its not as if there is one stable government in Egypt to begin with.

traptunderice

Tehom wrote
traptunderice wrote
Goat wrote
Their situation currently is shitty though, I think you're romanticising it a bit, particularly talking about a living wage... But you're right to criticise, the problem is the government awarding the monopoly rather than the market itself however.
The market not having any quality control standards, such as sustainability or recycling, though is quite a big issue. Romanticizing it a bit? These people got by on what they did. It's like coal mining. You don't romanticize being stuck in a coal mine and catching the black lung. You praise the community and culture that develops out of these people's awful working conditions and how they struggle through it.
Yeah, its not as a market can revolutionize working conditions, how else could they get by without subjecting themselves to government regulations that tell them how to do everything? :rolleyes: These individuals can control their own destiny even in spite of their poverty, and a market is the best way to do so and improve their own condition. Its not as if there is one stable government in Egypt to begin with.

I don't know what that first sentence means, but your second point is fucking inane ideology. No matter how often it is repeated, it won't be true. Markets don't equate to freedom. And the stability of Egyptian government surely isn't assisted by the undermining of established practices through international contracts.

Goat

Their community and culture is just one aspect of it, though. Look at what you're actually doing; you're defending a way of life that evolved through persecution and that means literally eking an existence from the dungheap. And then criticising markets in regards to recycling! These people's salvation won't come through the preservation of that. Markets might not equal freedom, but they're undoubtedly a step on the path towards it.

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