Mixed Martial Arts... Any Fans?

RelentlessOblivion

DevotedWalnut wrote
RelentlessOblivion wrote
Think the last time I saw Mir fight he still had the title to his name. That could be a good fight if both are on their A game.
They are a combined 1-6-1 in their last 8 fights. Their A games are long gone.

I'm very out of the loop then. The most recent UFC card I've seen is UFC 161

DevotedWalnut

Kelvin Gastelum, fresh off his 1st round submission of Jake Ellenberger, will now fight Tyron Woodley in the co-main event if UFC 183. Same night Anderson Silva fights Nick Diaz.

Thrash_til_Deth

Yeow! That won't win you Miss America anytime soon, Leslie.

traptunderice

^Apparently, she wanted to keep fighting, but they took her to the back to sew her ear back on.

Thrash_til_Deth

A lot of words have been levied toward the performance of Cub Swanson last Saturday night, but the one that keeps recurring the most is “exposed.” After a solid first round, Cub just melted against Frankie Edgar’s superior wrestling, effective counters and vicious ground-and-pound. For every strike and combo he threw, Swanson was consistently met with either an Edgar take down or solid counter shot. Effective take down defense early in the fight became non-existent pretty much from the second round on. A loss of focus late in the fight led to Cub surrendering his back and eventually submitting to a nasty neck crank. It was a disappointing end to an excellent run by Swanson who now sees his title hopes dwindle to nothing amidst arguably the deepest talent pool in the UFC.On the other hand, welcome back to the title picture, Frankie! A masterful job against a tough opponent who had been riding a six fight win streak. The fact that this guy was still pushing for a submission late in the 5th round when the decision was clearly his to lose shows what kind of a competitor he is. Even though he deserves a title fight after this showing, Dana will probably still give the shot to the Irish Motor Mouth should he be successful against Siver in a few weeks. There is too much Irish money and empty hype to be had that I don’t see how White could resist it. If that does happen, the possibility of a Mendes-Edgar fight then becomes very plausible, which has me doing freakin’ somersaults at the thought of it. Let Aldo leg kick the hype machine back to Dublin and give fans a battle of epic proportions with two of the best wrestlers in MMA. It’s a win-win either way I see it.

DevotedWalnut

Swanson was very humble in defeat. Went right up to him and said "thanks for making me better."Aldo-Edgar 2 will be epic as fuck. Edgar is the uncrowned FW champ in my eyes. As soon as Aldo moves up to LW, Edgar will become the featherweight champ.

Thrash_til_Deth

Picks for UFC 181 this weekend, fight fans?Pick 1: Travis Browne gets back to his winning ways with a KO victory over Brendan Schaub.Pick 2: Pettis will win a short but exciting fight but I'm still hoping for a Melendez upset.Pick 3: Tough one with Hendricks vs Lawler but I'm going with my gut and picking the Ruthless One by unanimous decision.

Tompa

Thrash til' Deth wrote
Picks for UFC 181 this weekend, fight fans?Pick 1: Travis Browne gets back to his winning ways with a KO victory over Brendan Schaub.Pick 2: Pettis will win a short but exciting fight but I'm still hoping for a Melendez upset.Pick 3: Tough one with Hendricks vs Lawler but I'm going with my gut and picking the Ruthless One by unanimous decision.

Nice picks 🙂Pretty good one this weekend too, as far as heavyweights go. Also the new womens division TUF finals.

Thrash_til_Deth

Any thoughts on the Joe Rogan intervention speech to Brendan Schaub? Pretty harsh stuff from Joe. Basically told Schaub that he was a second tier HW that lacked the talent to ever reach a title fight and should hang it up before he gets permanent brain damage.

DevotedWalnut

I have not listened to the interview, but I have read lots about it online since. I see where Joe is coming from, but most fighters in every division are second tier guys who will never fight for a title. Should they all just stop fighting because they lost to a top ranked fighter? I get the head trauma stuff, but Brendan Schaub, and every other fighter chose this lifestyle. They know what can happen from repeated punches and kicks to the head. Just listen to Chuck Liddell talk now compared to 10-15 years ago. Some times when he makes appearances on TV they have to put subtitles up.Then there's this class action lawsuit business. Could be a complete game-changer. Or just a couple pissed off ex-fighters looking to make a quick buck in an out-of-court settlement which I doubt happens because the UFC has said that they will "vigorously defend their business practices". I have not read the law suit, which is open to the public, but looking over the summary of the charges they seem pretty BS to me. I am obviously not an expert in these things, and there is much more going on behind the scenes than what is shown to the public. But why should the UFC be punished for building a multi-million (billion?) dollar business? Every other promoter has failed at running organizations, along comes the Fertitas and Dana White and they turn the sport into a mainstream commodity, signing major TV (Fox) and clothing sponsorship deals (Reebok) putting the UFC at the same level as the NFL, NBA, NHL, etc... And some ex-fighters have poopy pants and don't like it. Then you've got these greedy ass anti-trust lawyers licking their chops at a chance to get some of the UFCs pie. More money, more problems.UFC Fight 58 this weekend from Brazil. Picks?Machida (WAR MACHIDA), Barao (would be cool for my inner Caunck to see Gagnon pull this off), and Elkins (winner by unanimous decision...) are mine. Really the only picks worth making on this card.

Thrash_til_Deth

I think Joe was so blunt with Brendan because they're good friends and he doesn't want him to turn into a punch drunk vegetable. I do agree with you though that they're all big boys and can make those kinds of decisions for themselves. If fighters start having some serious health issues later in life, it's all on them because they knew the risks going in.As far as the lawsuit goes, the named fighters so far have been Cung Le, Jon Fitch and Nate Quarry. They're alleging that the UFC has or had greatly limited their outside earning potential by "monopolizing" MMA and then claiming control over their image rights in perpetuity and also inhibiting them from seeking outside marketing deals while under contract with the company. Honestly, the fighters really need to unionize so they can establish a collective bargaining agreement with the UFC that will put all this contractual and outside marketing stuff to rest. It's the next step for the company in becoming a legitimate major sports federation in the US. As much as Dana and the Fertitas should be lauded for their roles in bringing MMA mainstream success, they're going to have to give up some control here for the company to continue moving forward IMO. Dana is an excellent promoter but is truly a horrible representative for the brand, as he lacks the candor and professionalism that should be expected from a man in his position.Solid picks for Fight Night 53. I'll throw in local boy Tim Means by decision over Marcio Alexandre in the undercard. Hoping for a Barao victory to set up a #1 contender fight with Dominick Cruz. Really stoked to see the Dominator back in the mix again in spite of his excellent work as a fight analyst for Fox's MMA crew.

Goat

Have there been any Benoits from the MMA world? Repeated concussions are a known issue in wrestling and the NFL, so surely it would be something to be aware of...

Thrash_til_Deth

Goat wrote
Have there been any Benoits from the MMA world? Repeated concussions are a known issue in wrestling and the NFL, so surely it would be something to be aware of...

To my knowledge, nothing to that extreme, Zad. Some of the older guys like Chuck Liddell and Minotauro Nogueira are a little punchy but I haven't heard any stories of a fighter displaying serious, mood altering symptoms like Benoit did.

Thrash_til_Deth

A question for all you UFC historians. Of all the individuals (fighter and non-fighter) who have contributed to the success of the company, which ones do you believe merit inclusion into the UFC Hall of Fame?As of 2014, there are twelve members inducted into the HOF (named below).

1. Royce Gracie 2. Ken Shamrock 3. Dan Severn 4. Mark Coleman 5. Randy Couture 6. Chuck Liddell 7. Tito Ortiz 8. Pat Miletich 9. Matt Hughes 10. Forrest Griffin 11. Stephan Bonnar 12. Charles "Mask" Lewis, Jr. (non-fighter)[/list:u]For me, the most glaring omission thus far has been referee "Big" John McCarthy. He has been the one constant figure in the UFC since the very beginning and has been the standard for MMA refs throughout the rise of the sport. I honestly hear Big John's trademark "Let's Get It On!" in my head before the start of every fight I watch. His contributions in developing the original Unified Rules of MMA should also be noted.Even though Dana will never induct him, I think Don Frye also deserves consideration for his early success with the company where he went 10-1 in the Octagon and won both the UFC 8 and Ultimate Ultimate '96 tournaments. His only loss was to Mark Coleman in the finals of UFC 10. One of the UFC's first legit "mixed-martial artists" who could both strike and wrestle proficiently.

DevotedWalnut

GSP, Anderson Silva, Jose Aldo (when his career is over), Brock Lesnar (never was a fan, but he drew the biggest numbers in company history and is still tied for the HW title defence record), Jon Jones (same as Aldo).I agree with Don Frye, add Frank Shamrock, Jens Pulver, BJ Penn, Bas Rutten and if they want to include PRIDE guys... Minotauro Noguiera, Sakuraba, Fedor, Cro Cop, Hendo, Shogun, Wanderlei, Rickson Gracie, Takanori Gomi.Non-fighters, Big John makes sense. Maybe even Herb Dean too. Dana White when he retires or "steps down" will definitely be in there. Joe Silva maybe (somebody has to make all those epic fights), Stitch (the cut man), that black guy always yelling backstage, can't remember his name. I'm sure there are a lot of "behind-the-scenes" guys that us fans don't know anything about that are a big part of the UFC, some of them could get in there too.

DevotedWalnut

Goat wrote
Have there been any Benoits from the MMA world? Repeated concussions are a known issue in wrestling and the NFL, so surely it would be something to be aware of...

Honestly man, there aren't a lot of concussions in MMA. At least that are made public. Sure every fight they are suffering head trauma, but as for actual concussions, they are few and far between. To even get close to stepping into the octagon fighters need to pass a series of medical and physical tests, if a fighter suffers a concussion, he is not aloud to even spar until being cleared by the doctor. I'm sure there are a lot of thick headed fighters that don't want to listen to the doctor, but they deserve to suffer head trauma if they are not going to listen. The last reported concussion in the UFC was to top 155 lbs fighter (and Canadian 😛 ) TJ Grant, he was preparing for a title fight and suffered a concussion while training jiu-jitsu. That was like 2 years ago, and he's barely been heard from since. That concussion/head trauma stuff is taken very seriously in sports nowadays. The WWE, not so much... As they say, the show must go on. Professional wrestlers "fight" hurt all the time, thus adding to their injuries. You don't perform, people forget about you and some kid comes along and takes your spot. That's why a guy like Chris Benoit never took the time off he needed to heal. Plus he's a product of the 80s so I am sure he did a hell of a lot of partying (hard drugs) back in the day.

Thrash_til_Deth

DevotedWalnut wrote
GSP, Anderson Silva, Jose Aldo (when his career is over), Brock Lesnar (never was a fan, but he drew the biggest numbers in company history and is still tied for the HW title defence record), Jon Jones (same as Aldo).I agree with Don Frye, add Frank Shamrock, Jens Pulver, BJ Penn, Bas Rutten and if they want to include PRIDE guys... Minotauro Noguiera, Sakuraba, Fedor, Cro Cop, Hendo, Shogun, Wanderlei, Rickson Gracie, Takanori Gomi.Non-fighters, Big John makes sense. Maybe even Herb Dean too. Dana White when he retires or "steps down" will definitely be in there. Joe Silva maybe (somebody has to make all those epic fights), Stitch (the cut man), that black guy always yelling backstage, can't remember his name. I'm sure there are a lot of "behind-the-scenes" guys that us fans don't know anything about that are a big part of the UFC, some of them could get in there too.

GSP, Spider Silva, Aldo, Bones and Penn are all locks for the HOF. I agree that Pulver and Shamrock should be considered for their dominance in the "dark ages" of the company's history. That said, Frank has pretty much no chance of going in due to his longstanding feud with Dana White. As much as I love Bas, he only had two fights in the UFC and his title fight with Randleman could have went either way. Rutten, like both Shamrocks, did most of their damage in Pancrase before coming over and fighting in the states.The Pride guys definitely deserve some props for their contributions but it should be a HOF specifically designated for that company and not the UFC. I would throw in Rampage Jackson as well with Ricardo Arona on the bubble but still up for consideration.I would actually put Frank Mir in over Lesnar due to his longer tenure with the company. Mir has the most wins in UFC HW history, is both a former Unified HW and Interim HW champ and was in the title mix for most of his UFC career. Brock had incredible potential, history making potential, but I don't think he stuck around long enough to really build a HOF legacy. If he had been given enough time to totally develop his MMA game and minus his near fatal bouts with diverticulitis, Lesnar could have been the company's most dominant HW ever. I can still see Dana putting Brock in there due to his ability to generate monstrous levels of revenue as you pointed out.

Goat

If it's based around popularity and exposure for the sport then surely both Mir and Lesnar who casuals like me have heard of will go in eventually?Have a weird relationship with MMA. Nearly got into it, but am a bit squeamish and fights like the Franklin one where his nose got crushed and the Silva leg break (which I avoided seeing on purpose) turned me off. Might try and check UFC 181 out this weekend as a catchup.

Thrash_til_Deth

Goat wrote
If it's based around popularity and exposure for the sport then surely both Mir and Lesnar who casuals like me have heard of will go in eventually?

The biggest problem is the UFC has never really established any criteria for induction into the Hall. It's all subject to the whims of White and the Ferititas. Dana's ongoing beefs with ex-fighters like Shamrock and Frye, regardless of their in-ring accomplishments, has perpetually kept them on the outside looking in. On the other hand, you have far less deserving guys like Griffin and Bonnar who are in the HOF based on one fight that White claims "saved the company." Give credit where it's due, but those two guys don't belong in the same category with fighters like Couture, Hughes or Gracie who are absolute fucking legends of the sport. Again, another reason why White is not the man to lead the UFC into the next chapter of it's mainstream legitimacy. He's an arrogant hothead with to much power who can't check his ego at the door and do the right thing for guys who deserve the recognition.

DevotedWalnut

Speaking of Rampage, Internet reports saying he's back in the UFC but Bellator officials have said they haven't released him from his contract.And Dana White may be arrogant and rubs people the wrong way, but honestly the man is my hero. He has made millions, legitimized the sport, and gets to watch free MMA almost every weekend. Love him or hate him, he's the reason this thread exists.

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