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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:35 pm 
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Metal Servant
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Location: Belgium
A typical answer that has been completely forgotten ;) ?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:41 pm 
Zeth wrote:
Jaden wrote:
Zeth wrote:
Astaroth wrote:
Zeth wrote:
Jaden wrote:
But God'e existence is not a matter of faith. Either he truly does or does not exist.

Why?


it's just like this.. aherm... the door is either open or closed - regardless of what you might believe it is when you're not there... see?

Good example. But if it all comes down to proving the fact that there is a door, or god, gods existence is still based on faith.
You can show me the closed door in a material world. But you can only tell me about god. You can tell me about your dreams too, but that does not make them real for me.
As long as gods existence is only based upon faith, I'm a bit skeptical. And the fact that you choose to believe in a god after you have found knowledge about it. It's not like you would wake up some day with no prior knowledge and say "I believe in the father, the son and the holy spirit".


Not sure where Im going with this.


But your statement that God's existence is based on faith is false. His existence is fact or fiction (like the door example).

Perhaps what you mean to say is that for people who do believe in God, they rely on faith in doing so. However, that does not change the fact that God does or does not ultimately exist.

I still think that God is a creation of the mind.

kakaman wrote:
Off topic:

Quote:
some people have faith in a God that tells them to fly planes into towers


This is your typical American reasoning to explain those events. The truth is completely different.

And that is the typical answer. Of course there are people who do it for faith, as much as there are people who do it for greed, ignorance, political statements etc.


People don't generally kill themselves for greed. Doesn't make a lot of sense, eh?

There were other reasons for sure, but I can't imagine them actually pulling it off without religious faith.

And, in one sense, I agree that God is nothing more than a creation of the mind. But that just means that he does not exist.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:53 pm 
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Karma Whore
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Jaden wrote:
Brahm_K wrote:
But knowledge of his/her's/theirs existence is a matter of faith. Therefore, this topic, and all logical conversations about it, are completely fucking pointless.


Yet one must have made the decision to take on a faith in the first place. People are not born believing that Jesus Christ died for their sins. They made a decision at one point, and thus it still boils down to logic: why do they choose to have faith? Faith is not in itself good enough: some people have faith in a God that tells them to fly planes into towers, or tells them to conquer Jerusalem and slaughter millions of muslims -- or whatever. Faith is nothing more than an attempt to run away from logic, from reality. Faith is for the weak.


People are not born believing that Jesus Christ died for their sins. They are, however, indoctrinated from an early age. Obviously, this has a large impact upon someone's belief system, particularly those whose families are completely religious and who attend religious school. I'd think that the majority of people who are religious are so because of the way there were raised (and obviously, there are those who have mid life spiritual awakenings). Choosing faith over complete reason is not a matter of weakness; it is generally a matter of upbringing (there are also several new interesting theories that there is a gene that makes one more susceptible to spirituality). I am not religious or spiritual in the slightest, but there is, I think, a positive aspect to religion which you are ignoring completely.

And of course people kill themselves for greed (or at least get themselves killed); more importantly, people kill others for power, money, political ideologies, etc... Blaming all the worlds' problems on religion, as you seem to be doing, is bullshit.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:31 pm 
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Metal King
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Location: Sweden
Brahm_K wrote:
Jaden wrote:
Brahm_K wrote:
But knowledge of his/her's/theirs existence is a matter of faith. Therefore, this topic, and all logical conversations about it, are completely fucking pointless.


Yet one must have made the decision to take on a faith in the first place. People are not born believing that Jesus Christ died for their sins. They made a decision at one point, and thus it still boils down to logic: why do they choose to have faith? Faith is not in itself good enough: some people have faith in a God that tells them to fly planes into towers, or tells them to conquer Jerusalem and slaughter millions of muslims -- or whatever. Faith is nothing more than an attempt to run away from logic, from reality. Faith is for the weak.


People are not born believing that Jesus Christ died for their sins. They are, however, indoctrinated from an early age. Obviously, this has a large impact upon someone's belief system, particularly those whose families are completely religious and who attend religious school. I'd think that the majority of people who are religious are so because of the way there were raised (and obviously, there are those who have mid life spiritual awakenings). Choosing faith over complete reason is not a matter of weakness; it is generally a matter of upbringing (there are also several new interesting theories that there is a gene that makes one more susceptible to spirituality). I am not religious or spiritual in the slightest, but there is, I think, a positive aspect to religion which you are ignoring completely.

And of course people kill themselves for greed (or at least get themselves killed); more importantly, people kill others for power, money, political ideologies, etc... Blaming all the worlds' problems on religion, as you seem to be doing, is bullshit.

I don't think anyone is blaming religion for everything. As with most things there's good and bad about it. We would have missed out on ALOT of metal if it we're not for religion. At least alot of lyrics :)


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