Ever been called...

Ness · **Posted:** Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:51 am

cry of the banshee wrote:

grandbazaar wrote:

cry of the banshee wrote:

So what's the difference between the desert religions, i.e., Islam, Judiasm and Christianity, and any other cult? Number of people brainwashed? Holy book sales figures? Is it akin to the difference between organized crime and free-lance crime?
Calling one a bona-fide religion while deeming another a cult seems to be nothing more than condescending hypocritical bullshit.
How is believing that a mother ship awaits to take us to a distant galaxy any more bizzare than believing in the Rapture, a man walking on water / rising from the dead / etc. or any other school of thought, for that matter?

Well I don't see the catholic church charging me fees to be a member of their church.... and a cult typically refers to a cohesive social group devoted to beliefs or practices that the surrounding culture considers outside the mainstream, with a notably positive or negative popular perception. Which fits the bill.

It's estimated that their are more than 1 billion catholics worldwide; that's a lot of collection plates... yeah, yeah, I know nobody is forcing donations, but when the plate comes by, who wants to look like a stiff in front of their fellow flockand not put "what little you can, my son" in? It's called social pressure.
A nice setup, if you ask me. PLUS! It's tax-free!

I don't feel guilty. Plus I'm not Catholic, I'm Christian. If I feel I can give some to better the church, then yes I'll throw what I have in. We are not required, and we do not feel pressured to give. Just like I donate time to charity when I can. Sure it is only when it is convenient for me, but I feel good when I do it. I wish I could always contribute.

Lately though, my pockets have been empty b/c we are running on one income... mine. :lame:

My wife did finally get a contract to teach starting this Fall though. :cool:

Ness · **Posted:** Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:56 am

metalNESS wrote:

cry of the banshee wrote:

grandbazaar wrote:

cry of the banshee wrote:

So what's the difference between the desert religions, i.e., Islam, Judiasm and Christianity, and any other cult? Number of people brainwashed? Holy book sales figures? Is it akin to the difference between organized crime and free-lance crime?
Calling one a bona-fide religion while deeming another a cult seems to be nothing more than condescending hypocritical bullshit.
How is believing that a mother ship awaits to take us to a distant galaxy any more bizzare than believing in the Rapture, a man walking on water / rising from the dead / etc. or any other school of thought, for that matter?

Well I don't see the catholic church charging me fees to be a member of their church.... and a cult typically refers to a cohesive social group devoted to beliefs or practices that the surrounding culture considers outside the mainstream, with a notably positive or negative popular perception. Which fits the bill.

It's estimated that their are more than 1 billion catholics worldwide; that's a lot of collection plates... yeah, yeah, I know nobody is forcing donations, but when the plate comes by, who wants to look like a stiff in front of their fellow flockand not put "what little you can, my son" in? It's called social pressure.
A nice setup, if you ask me. PLUS! It's tax-free!

I don't feel guilty. Plus I'm not Catholic, I'm Christian. If I feel I can give some to better the church, then yes I'll throw what I have in. We are not required, and we do not feel pressured to give. Just like I donate time to charity when I can. Sure it is only when it is convenient for me, but I feel good when I do it. I wish I could always contribute.

Lately though, my pockets have been empty b/c we are running on one income... mine. :lame:

My wife did finally get a contract to teach starting this Fall though. :cool:

I hate to quote myself, but I also receive more from the church than I could afford if I wasn't there. Not just the sermon, but when I was going through some real depression my pastor payed for me to meet with a counselor (NOT CHEAP). I also eat their food, drink their coffee, got married, play basketball... and a crap load of other stuff for free.

Seinfeld26 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:52 am

Brahm_K wrote:

Cults are generally defined by their adherence to a living man and by the fact that they force you to contribute money in order to be a part of it. They also advocate complete separation from society and are generally outside the mainstream of their society. You'd be right to say that most religions start as cults, and that those cults that don't die out generally become religions, but there is a difference between developed religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism) and Jim Jones and co.

Cults also force you to practice certain rituals, etc. in the name of whoever they're devoted to (sometimes with death as the only alternative). Religions, meanwhile, have traditional practices and beliefs. But also give you freedom to choose whether or not you wish to practice them.

cry of the banshee · **Posted:** Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:37 pm

Seinfeld26 wrote:

Brahm_K wrote:

Cults are generally defined by their adherence to a living man and by the fact that they force you to contribute money in order to be a part of it. They also advocate complete separation from society and are generally outside the mainstream of their society. You'd be right to say that most religions start as cults, and that those cults that don't die out generally become religions, but there is a difference between developed religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism) and Jim Jones and co.

Cults also force you to practice certain rituals, etc. in the name of whoever they're devoted to (sometimes with death as the only alternative). Religions, meanwhile, have traditional practices and beliefs. But also give you freedom to choose whether or not you wish to practice them.

Christianity / catholicism has some of the bloodiest hands in history; conversion by fire and sword, anybody? The Inquisition ring a bell?

Caligula_K · **Joined:** Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:56 pm **Posts:** 3561

cry of the banshee wrote:

Seinfeld26 wrote:

Brahm_K wrote:

Cults are generally defined by their adherence to a living man and by the fact that they force you to contribute money in order to be a part of it. They also advocate complete separation from society and are generally outside the mainstream of their society. You'd be right to say that most religions start as cults, and that those cults that don't die out generally become religions, but there is a difference between developed religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism) and Jim Jones and co.

Cults also force you to practice certain rituals, etc. in the name of whoever they're devoted to (sometimes with death as the only alternative). Religions, meanwhile, have traditional practices and beliefs. But also give you freedom to choose whether or not you wish to practice them.

Christianity / catholicism has some of the bloodiest hands in history; conversion by fire and sword, anybody? The Inquisition ring a bell?

We're talking modern definitions of religion here, man. If you're trying to argue that medieval Christianity was like a modern cult (a waste of time, because they are very different, just as medieval religion is very different from modern religion), then I don't get your point at all.

cry of the banshee · **Posted:** Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:12 am

Brahm_K wrote:

cry of the banshee wrote:

Seinfeld26 wrote:

Brahm_K wrote:

Cults are generally defined by their adherence to a living man and by the fact that they force you to contribute money in order to be a part of it. They also advocate complete separation from society and are generally outside the mainstream of their society. You'd be right to say that most religions start as cults, and that those cults that don't die out generally become religions, but there is a difference between developed religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism) and Jim Jones and co.

Cults also force you to practice certain rituals, etc. in the name of whoever they're devoted to (sometimes with death as the only alternative). Religions, meanwhile, have traditional practices and beliefs. But also give you freedom to choose whether or not you wish to practice them.

Christianity / catholicism has some of the bloodiest hands in history; conversion by fire and sword, anybody? The Inquisition ring a bell?

We're talking modern definitions of religion here, man. If you're trying to argue that medieval Christianity was like a modern cult (a waste of time, because they are very different, just as medieval religion is very different from modern religion), then I don't get your point at all.

It figures you wouldn't. Who gets to define "modern definitions of religion"? Organized religion? How convenient.
All modern day religions started out as "cults", they flourished under the threat of punishment by torture and death, until, here we are modern day, where it is no longer necessary to threaten with torture and death.
The point is: it was stated that "cults" sometimes use force to coerce people to do things; I stated that organized religion (which were at one time "cults") used force to convert others, or in other words, "practice certain rituals"... So what is the difference between catholicism in it's salad days and your average run-of-the-mill cult? It withstood the trials of time; and no wonder; filling young childrens heads with fear of everlasting torment if you do not accept Jesus; fear has always been a very effective
method of indoctrination.
To state that "cults force you to practice certain rituals, etc. in the name of whoever they're devoted to (sometimes with death as the only alternative). Religions, meanwhile, have traditional practices and beliefs. But also give you freedom to choose whether or not you wish to practice them." is ironic, to say the least.
Nobody FORCES anybody to join a cult, either.
My POINT is marginalizing certains beliefs as "cults" while validating Catholicism / Judaeo- Christianity /etc. as "religion" smacks of hypocrisy.

Seinfeld26 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:13 am

Brahm_K wrote:

cry of the banshee wrote:

Seinfeld26 wrote:

Brahm_K wrote:

Cults are generally defined by their adherence to a living man and by the fact that they force you to contribute money in order to be a part of it. They also advocate complete separation from society and are generally outside the mainstream of their society. You'd be right to say that most religions start as cults, and that those cults that don't die out generally become religions, but there is a difference between developed religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism) and Jim Jones and co.

Cults also force you to practice certain rituals, etc. in the name of whoever they're devoted to (sometimes with death as the only alternative). Religions, meanwhile, have traditional practices and beliefs. But also give you freedom to choose whether or not you wish to practice them.

Christianity / catholicism has some of the bloodiest hands in history; conversion by fire and sword, anybody? The Inquisition ring a bell?

We're talking modern definitions of religion here, man. If you're trying to argue that medieval Christianity was like a modern cult (a waste of time, because they are very different, just as medieval religion is very different from modern religion), then I don't get your point at all.

Expanding on this, society in general was a lot different (ie. more violent) in Medieval/Renaissance times than it is today. We didn't have the heavy law enforcement, teachings of tolerance, or socially developed mindset that we have today. The world was a lot more "sink or swim." And many people seriously saw nothing wrong with killing "heathens" or "rebels," because if THEY didn't kill these people, these people would've probably killed THEM. In other words, up until philosophers like John Locke came into the picture, society was a lot more "kill or be killed."

Caligula_K · **Joined:** Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:56 pm **Posts:** 3561

Seinfeld26 wrote:

In other words, up until philosophers like John Locke came into the picture, society was a lot more "kill or be killed."

Now, be fair! You also had the option of serfdom and farming shit!

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