Prostitution

Goat · **Posted:** Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:43 pm

Well, several points here that I'll make and leave it at that. First and foremost:

Trapt wrote:

Redudancy is redundant. Free? Like the freedoms of modern society? Free to hock your cooch for formula. Cool. Mind you that you don't want to free the pedophiles from the constraints put on their natural inclinations. I'll celebrate progress but by no means should I stop myself from challenging the injustices still present today. That is a loathsome position when you'd rather mystify reality as a realm of bountiful progress while ignoring the inequity and mistreatment inherent and required for our current situation.

Utter, utter rubbish, putting words in my mouth and answering questions I never asked - who said anything about not challenging injustice? And way to throw in a crazy straw man there with the 'freedom leads to legalised paedophilia' nonsense!

trapt wrote:

Your conception of morality as equal to religion is bogus. I can easily have ethics without god, have it influence my political decisions without encroaching on political freedom.

I wouldn't say that it's my concept of morality at fault, but yours of religion. I never said that ethics require god - your moral stance here is reflective of religion, this cast-iron 'prostitution is always immoral' argument as opposed to the reasoning that prostitution is morally neutral. Your main objections re percentages of prostitutes raped/beaten etc are actually not to the prostitution itself, but the violence and slavery that goes with underground prostitution and the like and are a natural result of it being illegal and illiberal, rather than of 'sex for sale' itself.

trapt wrote:

How you can divorce values from any deliberation is a cute trick but just wrong. Every stance has inherent ethical value in it.

I'm not divorcing values from deliberation - just defining a different set of values, and that ultimately is where we differ.

noodles · **Posted:** Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:34 pm

traptunderice wrote:

noodles wrote:

Still don't get why it's immoral

plz tell me

It's the warping of a human being into a tool for pleasure. It's dehumanization and objectification to the extreme of actual use. Viewing women as tits and holes becomes using and purchasing women for tits and holes. We're not talking about Pretty Woman here, guys.

It's cute how everyone that is really advocating legalization never see the violence present in the current illegal variety as reflecting of the values and norms of our society. There is violence towards prostitutes because women can be and are objectified and dehumanized in society not because there are no legal regulations surrounding the business. Pimps are only possible because of this immorality inherent in prostitution. Once legalized, pimps may disappear but the horrible values of our society will manifest themselves in other ways.

imo violence against women is bad but that's not prostitution, that's violence against women. idk if objectifying someone without harming them is really immoral.

GeneralDiomedes · **Posted:** Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:23 am

"A 1986 study by Diane Prince, however, found call girls and brothel workers had higher self esteem than before they became prostitutes. 97% of call girls liked themselves 'more than before.' "

From A Psychological Profile of Prostitutes in California and Nevada, PhD. Thesis, United States International University, March 1986. Prince interviewed 300 women including call girls, street prostitutes and non-prostitutes prostitutes

These other stats

62% reported having been raped in prostitution.
73% reported having experienced physical assault in prostitution.
72% were currently or formerly homeless.
92% stated that they wanted to escape prostitution immediately.

Come from a study of 475 people in prostitution (including women, men, and the transgendered) from five countries (South Africa, Thailand, Turkey, USA, and Zambia): (Melissa Farley, Isin Baral, Merab Kiremire, Ufuk Sezgin, "Prostitution in Five Countries: Violence and Posttraumatic Stress Disorder" (1998) Feminism & Psychology 8 (4): 405-426

I doubt that's what most of us are imagining: some street prostitute in Zambia with some abusive pimp with a machete on his wall. I'm more thinking of a well-run brothel with security, or someone like this:

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traptunderice · **Posted:** Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:46 am

noodles wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

noodles wrote:

Still don't get why it's immoral

plz tell me

It's the warping of a human being into a tool for pleasure. It's dehumanization and objectification to the extreme of actual use. Viewing women as tits and holes becomes using and purchasing women for tits and holes. We're not talking about Pretty Woman here, guys.

It's cute how everyone that is really advocating legalization never see the violence present in the current illegal variety as reflecting of the values and norms of our society. There is violence towards prostitutes because women can be and are objectified and dehumanized in society not because there are no legal regulations surrounding the business. Pimps are only possible because of this immorality inherent in prostitution. Once legalized, pimps may disappear but the horrible values of our society will manifest themselves in other ways.

imo violence against women is bad but that's not prostitution, that's violence against women. idk if objectifying someone without harming them is really immoral.

The second paragraph wasn't really relevant to the immorality of it all. Just the objectification, dehumanization and use of a person is what I found to be immoral. Some compare that to one night stands which I've never really understood so maybe my moralizing is just wrong. I just treat people how I would want everyone else to be treated.

So Diomedes pointed out the stats I've been using. I never knew they came from those non-Western countries. Basically supports the legalization of it but still doesn't prove to me that it's an ethical act.

huskerc7 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:58 am **Posts:** 17544

i hate everyone

Milan · **Posted:** Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:17 am

Just my two cents.

MetalStorm · **Posted:** Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:44 pm

Orion wrote:

Goat wrote:

Heh, it sounds better if you say that stopping people having consensual sex is an infringement, and if there's a financial transaction involved, so what?

But legalizing prostitution isn't just about two consenting adults having sex and one getting money for it. It would lead to a systematic and large scale use of women as objects for whoever is willing to pay

Welcome to the porn industry.

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