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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:28 pm 
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Einherjar

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noodles wrote:
leee wrote:
noodles wrote:
leee wrote:
That is where you live. That would never happen or pass in the US in a billion years. It would be the same to most as being invaded by a foreign country. You just don't understand US culture and the way people think here to think that passing some law like that can just happen. It won't, ever and if they tried to do that I guarantee we would have a civil war.

Just because it wouldn't happen doesn't mean its a bad idea :\


Your own country doesn't have the toughest gun control laws in the world either and Montreal seems a mecca for shootings, so clean up the house before you start on the backyard.....

yeah but the only guy whose been murdered that I can remember in my town got stabbed! so nyeh!!!

apparently the guy shot 2 people in the dorm 2 hours before shooting the 30 people in another building, and classes kept going because security thought it had been dealt with. so 30 of the deaths could have been prevented.


You can't really fault anyone for this. I'm sure campus securtiy isn't prepared for a mass murder spree. You can bet now though, like with the Airline security a lot of stuff will change.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:29 pm 
Misha wrote:
Apoptygmatic wrote:
There are almost 400 MILLION people living in the US. There's barely 300 THOUSAND living in the Netherlands.

The murder rates—guns or no guns—are comparable. Dead is dead.

Ohh Ken, you are so smart, saying the murder rates are comparable! how could I be so ignorant as to think there are actually more people in the US!!?? You are sooo convincing that I'm not going to look it up and find out that there are actually almost 4 times as many people murdered (gun or no gun) per capita in the US compared to the Netherlands, and that the amount of people murdered with guns (so excluding gun accidents) is over 10 times higher.

I expected more from you Ken, even though I know you are mentally disabled.

You're still the most worthless reviewer here. Oh, I remember the days when you'd parade your opinion of me not being worthy of the reviewer/moderator status. Yet here you are, doing MR justice! :lol:

Yes, the percentage is higher in the US. Is that shocking when there is so many more people? Hardly. And again, dead is dead. Guns or no guns.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:32 pm 
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Ist Krieg
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Apoptygmatic wrote:
Yes, the percentage is higher in the US. Is that shocking when there is so many more people? Hardly. And again, dead is dead. Guns or no guns.

Did you miss the part where he said "per capita"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:38 pm 
noodles wrote:
Apoptygmatic wrote:
Yes, the percentage is higher in the US. Is that shocking when there is so many more people? Hardly. And again, dead is dead. Guns or no guns.

Did you miss the part where he said "per capita"

That's not the point, Mr. Inconclusive Tardopedia.

By the way, I fucking hate this account name. Get your insults in today.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:57 am 
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Jeg lever med min foreldre
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Adam wrote:
Eternal Idol wrote:
following the reaper wrote:
Adam wrote:
following the reaper wrote:
Misha wrote:
Wow, someone actually agreed :omfg: I was just making a ridiculous statement to see how people responded...


I agree with you too. :ph34r:


Of course you do lapdog. It was a "ridiculous" statement by his own admission, so just drop it.

following the reaper wrote:
Did you even know anyone who went there?


Please explain to me how in the hell that has anything to do with it. I went to a college very similar in size and atmosphere to VT, and trust me, whether you know someone involved or not, it hits home. It is not off base for any parent, student, even citizen in this country to be rightfully depressed and frightened by this whole ordeal.


Thats a ridiculous statement. Im sure you have a much higher chance of dying in a car crash, or from cancer. An individuals statistical chance of being shot in a rampage like this is probably what, 0.002%?


Uh, that doesn't make any sense. So you're saying people shouldn't be sympathetic towards the families of the kids who were brutally murdered just because they weren't personal friends?


+1

So, statistical chance of the same happening to them should determine whether or not people are allowed to feel fear or sadness about an event like this? Do you realize how "ridiculous" that sounds?! What is the statistical chance that an individual will be killed in a high rise from a plane flying into it? Does that mean that we shouldn't have felt remorse or fear after the World Trade Center incident.

Get a freaking clue man.


No, it means you shouldnt have an irrational fear of it happening to you. Because most likely it wont happen.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:08 am 
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As someone who's school it did happen to, stop with the insensitive assholeness. I can feel sympathy for these kids and disgust at this event, and even a measure of fear for myself and others without knowing anyone there. Its known as empathy.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:17 am 
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If anyone else wants to be a an ass and trivialize the deaths of these unfortunate individuals by comparing them to people killed in war ridden countries, expect to have your post deleted, as following the reaper just found out.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:31 am 
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following the reaper wrote:
No, it means you shouldnt have an irrational fear of it happening to you. Because most likely it wont happen.


Explain to me what's irrational about it, since you're such a wise ass. My daughter may go to a school just like Virginia Tech in about 18 years. By that time, the initial shock of this will pass, but I can guarantee that I will still be a little wary of something like this happening to her. But it's pointless to argue with you, I guess I can't expect a 15 year old to really understand what's rational. As Kayla said, I can only hope that you get to keep the luxury of your attitude.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:52 am 
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Adam wrote:
following the reaper wrote:
No, it means you shouldnt have an irrational fear of it happening to you. Because most likely it wont happen.


Explain to me what's irrational about it, since you're such a wise ass. My daughter may go to a school just like Virginia Tech in about 18 years. By that time, the initial shock of this will pass, but I can guarantee that I will still be a little wary of something like this happening to her. But it's pointless to argue with you, I guess I can't expect a 15 year old to really understand what's rational. As Kayla said, I can only hope that you get to keep the luxury of your attitude.


based on the stat, it would be irrational to fear this for your daughter, sure you will be concerned and worried, what parent wouldn't be. We do live in fucked up times. of course there is a chance it will happen, but it is so small. i think they said the campus has 25,000 students.
Assuming they were all there at the time of the rampage. the chances of dieing were .00128 percent.

of course the percentages don't make a difference if you know the person, or you are one of them. Being wary is legitimate, but to be seriously afraid is irrational.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:58 am 
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unknownkadath666 wrote:
Adam wrote:
following the reaper wrote:
No, it means you shouldnt have an irrational fear of it happening to you. Because most likely it wont happen.


Explain to me what's irrational about it, since you're such a wise ass. My daughter may go to a school just like Virginia Tech in about 18 years. By that time, the initial shock of this will pass, but I can guarantee that I will still be a little wary of something like this happening to her. But it's pointless to argue with you, I guess I can't expect a 15 year old to really understand what's rational. As Kayla said, I can only hope that you get to keep the luxury of your attitude.


based on the stat, it would be irrational to fear this for your daughter, sure you will be concerned and worried, what parent wouldn't be. We do live in fucked up times. of course there is a chance it will happen, but it is so small. i think they said the campus has 25,000 students.
Assuming they were all there at the time of the rampage. the chances of dieing were .00128 percent.

of course the percentages don't make a difference if you know the person, or you are one of them. Being wary is legitimate, but to be seriously afraid is irrational.


Whatever, if your child was away at college right now, you'd be afraid. If you and lapdog think that's irrational, oh well.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:03 am 
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Einherjar
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In response to leee

Quote:
Here is the point you all keep missing with your usual euro dismissive single minded solutions to everything...

1. People are never going to give up their guns in the US or vote for the outright banning of them, no matter what happens. It goes back to our whole freedom issue and other things deeply set in our culture. It is more then just wanting to blow away anyone you see when you go crazy.

2. There are already so many guns out there it wouldn't matter, if Psycho A wanted a gun, he would get one, no problem. I bet I could buy 6 today if wanted one.

3. How many people on this board have a gun in their bedroom? I have two, I never shot anybody and I'm sure the percentages of owners vs people who do school massacres is in the .00001 percent range. Misha if you pissed me off I wouldn't shoot you.

4. Typical European knee jerk reactions to this are predictable and ignorant. Take care of your own. You all are no better then those who blame this behaviour on metal or video games and refuse to put personal responsibilty on the people who do these things. Yes I know Europe is home to very strict anti race laws, censorship, movie banning, music banning, free though banning, etc (Video nasties, Germanies ban on anything with a slight Nazi refrence, Muslim not allowed to wear those head wraps in school, etc etc.). The US isn't like Europe and those types of laws won't work here.

5. And the most important thing of all. Instead of arguing about it, playing it off with some stupid political smart mouthing about people dying in suicide bombs, how about some respect and a moment of silence for another shitty incident in a volatile world.


1. That is the scary thing, that guns and violence are so deeply rooted in American culture that common sense has no chance of prevailing.

2. Which is why mass shootings occur.

3. Why do you have two guns in your bedroom? Is one not enough for protection? Are they status symbols? Do they complete you? If you never intend to shoot anybody, why have them at all?

4. Australia isn't exactly that close to Europe, and I agree with the Europeans. America's idea of what is "free" is a fucking joke. Compared to most other civilised countries you guys are living under a white Taliban. You just can't see it behind all the waving flags. If you chant "freedom" often enough you start to believe that you actually have it.

5. How about you lot stop making memorials for every tragedy and start making solutions.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:12 am 
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MetalReviews Staff
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OK, last request.

Pretty pretty please with sugar on top, everyone knock it off with the "my country is better than yours because" posts. We're all human beings. Call me crazy, but when I hear of tragedies somewhat similar to this in other countries, the first thought that pops into my head isn't trying to think up a reason to blame said country for the occurrence while I sit halfway across the world doing NOTHING about it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:14 am 
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Whatever people say, the death of innocents is a tragedy. None of the people killed deserved it.

What does puzzle me is this obstinacy Americans have. Like us British, but to a fascist level. We moan about foreigners, most of our tabloid press is dedicated to how immigrants ruin the lives of us whities. For Americans, whose country has been built from the start on immigrants, to start saying things like, hey, maybe we should be careful who we let in the country, is a sad sign of the times.

Another way this obstinacy comes out is through the highly controversial issue of guns. Let's face it, you guys have had students being shot since the 60s, and then by state police quashing 'rioters'. Does it count as an improvement that at least it isn't the coppers doing the killing this time? Oh, excuse me, I'm trivialising the deaths of the innocents. Of course, change nothing, learn nothing, and continue to allow any Tom, Dick or Harry to buy weapons capable of killing many just because, well hey, we needed them back then to kick them goshdarned Brits out, who knows, maybe that Tony Blare guy'll invade again?

I hate to say it, but if having two elections stolen by a right-wing, Bible-bashing corporation sycophant isn't going to cause a bloody uprising, then you're all fucked. I understand. Might as well give up, the collective inhabitants of that mighty country aren't going to give up their God-given right to keep sub-machine guns just because a few goddamn commies and satanisers shoot a few kids. Oh, excuse me, I'm trivialising the deaths of the innocents.

What will it take? How many will have to die? You look at countries like England or Holland, and then say, well, just because there's no guns doesn't mean that there are less deaths! You see, there are MORE PEOPLE in America, and these extra people think different. So you, with your pot cafes and Monarchy, can't tell us what to do. You agree with each other, well, it's because you fags will agree to any old liberal nonsense that gets ejaculated out. Look at Follow The Reaper, he agreed with that pot-smoking unMetal fag what does the modellin', so he must be automatically derided.

We understand you, us Euros. You think an ocean makes our poor little brains melt, what with all the pot, lack of religion and moderately honest politicians, well, sad to say, you're wrong. Adam, you'd honestly send your daughter to a school where a shooting may take place because, gosh, that's just the way it is? Are you fucking sane? Sure, we might be looking at it a little differently because the worstest thing that happens at schools is drugs and the odd stabbing, but wait, we're not qualified to tell Americans what to do. We had our revolution before you did. We used to rule your country back in the days before your biological ancestors had even thought of emigrating from eastern Europe. And we can't suggest, hey, lose the shooters, because ... what? It just won't work? How goddamn arrogant you all are.

Yes, of course the deaths of the children was a tragedy. And of course, people scratch their heads and say, well, duh, no guns no corpses, and hey, these words may be coming from the mouths (hands, whatever) of people that are younger than you. Does that mean they're worthless? Should I listen to the Pope because he's older than me, and hell, all that life experience must count for something? Fuck that, fuck the pope, and fuck those who won't listen to sense. LOSE THE FRIGGING GUNS. It worked everywhere else, and you're as human, sadly, as the rest of us.

And now watch: Zad hates America, Zad hates freedom, Zad hates the American way. All I can do is :rolleyes: and say, the world keeps turning, the truest thing ever written. More children will die of stupid reasons, and people can say what they like about the reasons. Not taking the first steps, however, is leaving it to God, or the American people. Or are they the same thing...?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:15 am 
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Einherjar

Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:10 am
Posts: 1763
Location: USA and Asia
Tlaloc wrote:
In response to leee

Quote:
Here is the point you all keep missing with your usual euro dismissive single minded solutions to everything...

1. People are never going to give up their guns in the US or vote for the outright banning of them, no matter what happens. It goes back to our whole freedom issue and other things deeply set in our culture. It is more then just wanting to blow away anyone you see when you go crazy.

2. There are already so many guns out there it wouldn't matter, if Psycho A wanted a gun, he would get one, no problem. I bet I could buy 6 today if wanted one.

3. How many people on this board have a gun in their bedroom? I have two, I never shot anybody and I'm sure the percentages of owners vs people who do school massacres is in the .00001 percent range. Misha if you pissed me off I wouldn't shoot you.

4. Typical European knee jerk reactions to this are predictable and ignorant. Take care of your own. You all are no better then those who blame this behaviour on metal or video games and refuse to put personal responsibilty on the people who do these things. Yes I know Europe is home to very strict anti race laws, censorship, movie banning, music banning, free though banning, etc (Video nasties, Germanies ban on anything with a slight Nazi refrence, Muslim not allowed to wear those head wraps in school, etc etc.). The US isn't like Europe and those types of laws won't work here.

5. And the most important thing of all. Instead of arguing about it, playing it off with some stupid political smart mouthing about people dying in suicide bombs, how about some respect and a moment of silence for another shitty incident in a volatile world.


1. That is the scary thing, that guns and violence are so deeply rooted in American culture that common sense has no chance of prevailing.

2. Which is why mass shootings occur.

3. Why do you have two guns in your bedroom? Is one not enough for protection? Are they status symbols? Do they complete you? If you never intend to shoot anybody, why have them at all?

4. Australia isn't exactly that close to Europe, and I agree with the Europeans. America's idea of what is "free" is a fucking joke. Compared to most other civilised countries you guys are living under a white Taliban. You just can't see it behind all the waving flags. If you chant "freedom" often enough you start to believe that you actually have it.

5. How about you lot stop making memorials for every tragedy and start making solutions.


I told you I wasn't arguing this anymore so you can discuss this with someone else.

You want the world to be a gun free liberal haven with no war and eternal love and peace. I live in a reality based world it is pointless to argue this.

Only your personal freedom crack and white taliban is one of the stupidest things I ever read on the internet.......thanks for that though.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:22 am 
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Einherjar
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Quote:
Only your personal freedom crack and white taliban is one of the stupidest things I ever read on the internet.......thanks for that though.


No worries. :)

Btw
*standing ovation for Zad for telling it like it is*


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:28 am 
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I :wub: people from Europe and all other continents!!

There, can we stop this now. This pissing match between continents is sad.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:33 am 
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Jeg lever med min foreldre
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Adam wrote:
following the reaper wrote:
No, it means you shouldnt have an irrational fear of it happening to you. Because most likely it wont happen.


Explain to me what's irrational about it, since you're such a wise ass. My daughter may go to a school just like Virginia Tech in about 18 years. By that time, the initial shock of this will pass, but I can guarantee that I will still be a little wary of something like this happening to her. But it's pointless to argue with you, I guess I can't expect a 15 year old to really understand what's rational. As Kayla said, I can only hope that you get to keep the luxury of your attitude.


Im 19. I apologise for what i said in this thread. I was an ass.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:36 am 
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following the reaper wrote:
Adam wrote:
following the reaper wrote:
No, it means you shouldnt have an irrational fear of it happening to you. Because most likely it wont happen.


Explain to me what's irrational about it, since you're such a wise ass. My daughter may go to a school just like Virginia Tech in about 18 years. By that time, the initial shock of this will pass, but I can guarantee that I will still be a little wary of something like this happening to her. But it's pointless to argue with you, I guess I can't expect a 15 year old to really understand what's rational. As Kayla said, I can only hope that you get to keep the luxury of your attitude.


Im 19. I apologise for what i said in this thread. I was an ass.


My apologies as well, I wasn't always nice in this thread either.

Truce? :wub:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:42 am 
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Jeg lever med min foreldre
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Adam wrote:
following the reaper wrote:
Adam wrote:
following the reaper wrote:
No, it means you shouldnt have an irrational fear of it happening to you. Because most likely it wont happen.


Explain to me what's irrational about it, since you're such a wise ass. My daughter may go to a school just like Virginia Tech in about 18 years. By that time, the initial shock of this will pass, but I can guarantee that I will still be a little wary of something like this happening to her. But it's pointless to argue with you, I guess I can't expect a 15 year old to really understand what's rational. As Kayla said, I can only hope that you get to keep the luxury of your attitude.


Im 19. I apologise for what i said in this thread. I was an ass.


My apologies as well, I wasn't always nice in this thread either.

Truce? :wub:


Certainly. I am prone to sticking to fighting arguments where i know i lost, but i keep going anyway :ph34r:

I was watching the news last noght, and there was a story about an Australian girl who went to the uni but was not hurt, and a story about how this shooting had made people involved in the Port Arthur massacre remember that event. Does anyone find that weird?

Why does it matter about these things that really have no strong link to the current events? It seems to happen a lot in Australian news, where an event occurs in another country, and it has to be linked back to our own country. Does this happen elsewhere?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:35 am 
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Ist Krieg
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Quote:
Why does it matter about these things that really have no strong link to the current events? It seems to happen a lot in Australian news, where an event occurs in another country, and it has to be linked back to our own country. Does this happen elsewhere?

it sort of happens here. generally when something like this or a terrorist bombing in Malaysia or whatever happens the central focus is how many Canadians were injured/killed... maybe I just have no national pride but I don't really consider a Canadian death any more or less tragic than anyone else's.


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