Metal Reviews

Read the article. The ACLU filed legal action to get the photos. There is no legal reason to release the photos of bin Laden. If he truly had intended to close Gitmo at the time, it also would've been good leverage.

I don't know how I feel about releasing photos. I'm also curious how people expect it to be done. Do you want photos of a man with his eye shot out on CNN? Posted on the White House's flickr? Just discretely disseminated to be gawked at on 4chan?

I did read the article...

Releasing photos isn't rocket science.

The ACLU?

The whole thing smacks of bullshit and politicking.

For the sake of fairness, the story doesn't say if he actually released the pics... it still looks as if he is (at least at the time) authorizing the action.

If he never released the pics, then, well, never mind.

"When the SEALs reached the third floor, after resistance and physical barricades, Usama bin Laden did not immediately surrender. When someone like UBL who has said he wants to kill as many Americans as possible, doesn't 150 percent surrender, you have to assess as a threat."

I love this quote from Fox News. Basically they are saying the guy wasnt prostrate on the ground spread eagled and begging for forgiveness, so they shot him (rightfully so).

Also, in reference to the pictures, I dont think they are neccesary. The best move right now is to continue with what they have already done, remove him from the picture. OBL isnt being martyr'd, he is becoming irelevant. By dumping him at sea and refusing to release the pictures (which would incite already hostile parties), we have taken the first step in turning him into a footnote in history, later to be joked about and scoffed at just like Hitler is today.

The burden of proof for you and those that incessantly claim that somehow releasing the pictures will compromise national security is a heavy one. Our drones have killed more civilians, and our occupation in the area has incited a lot of animus towards us, yet where is the massive terrorist attack? Your claim is nothing but fearmongering, and lacks the support needed to propagate its needless rehashing in the media.

The Danish comic riots. If I remember correctly, the comics were publishedand nobody paid attention to it. Months went by, no response beyond general kinds of journalistic criticisms and outcry in the local community Muslim community. Then the comics are pranced through the Middle East and people hit the streets.

Watching a documentary on people in Beirut the other night, I don't think bombing phases these people. They have been in a constant state of upheaval for as long as they can remember. What is tolerated quickly becomes problematic to the individual when given a symbol or attack to galvanize around.

I'm really not into claims of national security but I'm curious why you are so adamant on seeing photos. Simply to know that he is dead? A lot of people die in these countries daily but I believe it. I don't need photo evidence when 3rd or 4th ranked commanders of Al Qaeda are killed. Is numero uno different? He wasn't the only one who planned the attack. They either pulled a huge hoax or they are keeping his photos confidential for whatever reason that keeps me from seeing them. The former seems unlikely so I'll let 'em keep the photos to themselves.

There is no burden of proof, because no amount of proof will ever be enough for conspiracy theorists or political activists looking for an edge. Being in the military, I have the unique perspective of not needing proof to do what I am told, because that is what I have sworn to do. This doesnt mean that I am blindly jumping off a cliff or believing everything my government tells me, but I do tend towards compliance because that is the way it works. As such, when my leadership tells me they killed OBL, I am inclined to believe it. I do not question the integrity of the Seal team that went in and got the job done, and frankly the photo's that were released of other individuals killed are pretty convincing in and of themselves that this event went down.

As to my "claim", the fact that a massive terror attack hasnt happened since 9/11 isnt due to the fact that terrorists magically no longer exist, it is the result of nearly a decade of concentrated efforts in one of the most hostile enviornments on Earth. Do you honestly think there havent been further attempts since then? Do you think that if we dropped everything now and completely pulled out, everything would be better? We are pulling out, gradually as the situation allows, but there are multiple factors to consider. It took years for Iraq's government to stabalize to the point of self-sufficiency, and Afghanistan is years behind them. Also, animus comes from select demographics within the culture. For every one person that hates us, there are 10 more that just want the food we deliver, the schools we build, the fresh water we help provide, and the medical aid we give. I am not talking out my ass on this, I have been there multiple times.

I am not saying it is an ideal situation, and yes there are civilian casualties as there always is which is a tragedy in and of itself, but I truly believe in what we are doing over there and I support it. The good far outweights the bad in this scenario. All IMO of course.

Sorry, it has nothing at all to do with conspiracy theorys, which are entertaining, but not something I take seriously, personally.
It has everything to do with a government that has an aversion to the truth, a penchant for exploiting situations and political oppurtunism... as for "the safety of the troops" or whatever they are pawning off on us as the excuse for not releasing the pics, I don't buy that at all.
I'd say putting boots on the ground in a foriegn harsh and hostile region known for it's brutality is what puts the troops in danger; in other words whatever danger there is, they are already in it.
And that concern wasn't really so big when it came to releasing the Abu Ghraib pics (the way that was used as a political hammer against W and Co. says it all), now, was it?
And it's not as if every time a wedding or whatever civilians are hit by our drones and what have you, it goes unreported.

It has nothing to do with conspiracies, at least as far as I am concerned. It has everything to do with a government that is supposed to be transparent.
It has everything to do with freedom of information.
The ME fiasco has been going on for ten years now, with no end in sight and has cost us billions of dollars, I think the US public has a right to know that, yes, without a shadow of a doubt, we got the right man.
What do we get instead?
Dumped in the ocean, and no proof forthcoming.
It's fishier than $3 bill, if you ask me.
But, whatever.

I don't see anything happening with our/my ONE national political party (I think I would name them the liberal republicans and the conservative republicans)

The only reason all those documents (that are actual government conspiracies/plans/ideas) end up getting "published" is because when they are requested via the freedom of information act or get declassified, they have no idea what document#so-and-so says. There are REAMS of documents that only the people directly involved know what is in them. They would have never in a million years released the white papers for operation northwoods or project bluebeam had anyone working where copies of those files are kept and had been requested, actually known what they were. When you publish more material annually than every single private publisher combined, things get lost in the shuffle.

What's my point. There is a straw man called "conspiracy theory." When someone absolutely refuses to address even the simplest of lies and claims it is a conspiracy theory they are sending a message that the idea is so insane it can not be discussed. Why do people even accept that?

Is it like science saying something can't be science if it breaks absolutely no scientific laws, is not understood but has a clear cause and effect based on theoretical principles that we will never be able to prove. However because it violates another theoretical model, they can say it's disproven

It is the same thing with conspiracies. We don't have all the evidence (we can't read minds, aren't the elite ) , so the people that claim to have all the information can use our natural ability to make connections that don't exist and explain it away with oversimplified answers or dismiss any evidence with a classic fallacies of appealing to emotions, relying on our social habit to conform, and of course poisoning the well.

Let's not forget. Disinfo is always out there. Even reverse dis-info. Meaning to make up an even bigger lie, make it seem plausible and leave all sorts of evidence that leads to dead ends simply to conceal what is going on. Conspiracies rely a lot on a body of supportive evidence from lots of different sources. If 90% is just flat out bullshit made up by talk show hosts or perpetuated by gov/corps, you can throw the baby out with the bath water.

Take IBM for example. They made computers for Nazi Germany and to this day flat out deny what there are thousands of records of. If they say it is "conspiracy theory" to some that means it is case closed and they never did it. See, any company can create 5 proxies to their corporations that will stay in business as long as they are required. They know that very few are going to follow the evidence and because they have made it so convoluted, it would be extremely difficult to prove.

They can just dismiss the evidence and call whoever did the research a liar, because people demand oversimplification.

Nazis had computers?

Wow. This thread became really weird after page 2. A bit like Annihilator should have quit after the first two albums, this thread should have stopped at page 2.

Anyway. AQ just confirmed OBL is dead, and promised über-retaliation.

[/conspiracies.]

Good news. I'm over the conspiracy stuff, so it won't be making any appearances anytime soon. It's amazing how some stuff is like a daily habit that gets dropped immediately when you don't get the mental reward for doing it. I'd rather do something productive.

See, people with severe ADHD that aren't on meds are something of Dopamine junkies. Meaning we go from one stupid menial task to the next for a thrill that will trigger some dopamine. No Dopamine means severe depression and you don't feel any sense of reward or accomplishment for anything.

You have ADHD Addy ? I had no idea. What you describe must be awfully tiresome..

bipolar/schizoaffective > ADHD.

Yeah, it feels like high school with no classes. There's no where to go and nothing to do.

Are you bragging?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_bin_laden ... xhc2hvdmVy

Jesus H. Christ, is there anything that some minority group isn't offended by?

This is almost as bad as that idiot that claimed the term "black holes" be racis' an' shit.

lol @ the article calling them "Indians"

You don't understand why they would prefer that their national heroes weren't compared to a mass murderer?

+1, noodz.

I'm fucking around.