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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:13 am 
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Ist Krieg
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traptunderice wrote:
Reading Naked Lunch for fun and I'm kind of struggling to understand what is going on in the first 18 pages. :wacko:

around page 60 it starts to become a struggle to care about finishing the book when you realize nothing is going on or going anywhere


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:23 am 
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Zad wrote:
Mintrude wrote:
Zad wrote:
Finished Shadow Of The Wind, good. Started By The Light Of The Moon by Dean Koontz. I hate the right-wing crap he shovels in, otherwise not a bad writer at all...

What kind of right-wing crap?

Shoehorning Gawd into it, random mentions of ayatollahs and their big scary beards. I've noticed it in other books of his as well...

Koontz has gone downhill in recent years. He's putting out two or three books a year now, which is a bit ridiculous. He's also not mixing genres like he used to. His best stuff came when he was mixing sci-fi with horror and mystery. He was my favorite author for over a decade, but his writing started to suffer about the time One Door Away From Heaven came out. He's still putting out good stories, but not quite as good as his early stuff.

But he has done some great ones still. The Face, Odd Thomas and its sequels, Forever Odd and Brother Odd are all great stories. But he needs to slow down, I think. The Darkest Evening Of The Year just came out in November; now he's got book three in his Frankenstein story coming out in 2008, plus a new Odd Thomas story and graphic novel, I think (it's called In Odd We Trust). Of course, maybe I'm just used to fantasy authors only releasing one book a year. Maybe it's easier to write regular fiction.

Anyway, I finished A Feast For Crows. It got better after about page 250, but still it was slow; and then like the last four chapters he dropped all kinds of bombs. The problem here is the flow of the story. It's choppy. Which is no surprise considering he sort of chopped one story into two. I did like what he did with Arya, Brienne and Jaime, though. The final Cersei chapter was great, too. I wonder what word Brienne shouted right before her implied demise? I can't figure out what she would say. And I'm not sure if I like what he did with Catelyn; the change seems too extreme and almost pointless.

I don't know. We'll see, I guess. Pretty crazy that in 2005 he was saying the next book would hopefully be out in a year. I think he's struggling with the story. Either way, I hope Arya comes back as a badass. I loved when she did away with the singer. That was awesome.

I've just started World Without End, the quasi-sequel to Pillars of the Earth, today.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:09 pm 
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Afro Lint wrote:
Zad wrote:
Mintrude wrote:
Zad wrote:
Finished Shadow Of The Wind, good. Started By The Light Of The Moon by Dean Koontz. I hate the right-wing crap he shovels in, otherwise not a bad writer at all...

What kind of right-wing crap?

Shoehorning Gawd into it, random mentions of ayatollahs and their big scary beards. I've noticed it in other books of his as well...

Koontz has gone downhill in recent years. He's putting out two or three books a year now, which is a bit ridiculous. He's also not mixing genres like he used to. His best stuff came when he was mixing sci-fi with horror and mystery. He was my favorite author for over a decade, but his writing started to suffer about the time One Door Away From Heaven came out. He's still putting out good stories, but not quite as good as his early stuff.

But he has done some great ones still. The Face, Odd Thomas and its sequels, Forever Odd and Brother Odd are all great stories. But he needs to slow down, I think. The Darkest Evening Of The Year just came out in November; now he's got book three in his Frankenstein story coming out in 2008, plus a new Odd Thomas story and graphic novel, I think (it's called In Odd We Trust). Of course, maybe I'm just used to fantasy authors only releasing one book a year. Maybe it's easier to write regular fiction.


I like his writing, read a few of his books now. This one's pretty intriguing so far...


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:40 pm 
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Quote:
Anyway, I finished A Feast For Crows. It got better after about page 250, but still it was slow; and then like the last four chapters he dropped all kinds of bombs. The problem here is the flow of the story. It's choppy. Which is no surprise considering he sort of chopped one story into two. I did like what he did with Arya, Brienne and Jaime, though. The final Cersei chapter was great, too. I wonder what word Brienne shouted right before her implied demise? I can't figure out what she would say. And I'm not sure if I like what he did with Catelyn; the change seems too extreme and almost pointless.

I don't know. We'll see, I guess. Pretty crazy that in 2005 he was saying the next book would hopefully be out in a year. I think he's struggling with the story. Either way, I hope Arya comes back as a badass. I loved when she did away with the singer. That was awesome.


AFFC SPOILERS"

My guess for Brienne's word is "sword-" as before they had asked her to choose between "sword" and "noose"- she chooses "noose", but then sees Pod hanging so decides to choose the sword and hunt down Jaime.

And I actually found AFFC to be the best structured of the series; I felt it built up quite subtly but excellently and that the POVs were interconnected in a way they haven't been throughout the series, affecting each other in subtle ways (for example, the dwarf that Brienne meets being killed and brought to Cersei, one of the Sand Snakes being in Oldtown, etc..)

And I think you're quite right in saying that he's having a lot of trouble with this part of the series. This may be because he had originally planned for there to be a five year gap between A Storm of Swords and the next book- he had actually written about half of the next book when he decided that it wasn't working and that he had to restart with A Feast For Crows. So, AFFC and ADWD are kind of the intermediary for him; I'm hoping when he's done ADWD he'll have a greater idea of where he wants the plot to go and can write faster.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:26 pm 
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Zad wrote:
I like his writing, read a few of his books now. This one's pretty intriguing so far...

Pick up Lightning. That's the first book I read by Koontz and it's absolutely brilliant. His latest stuff is more typical, almost template-style. But his early stuff is where he really embraced a greater fantastical style.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:29 pm 
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Brahm_K wrote:
Quote:
Anyway, I finished A Feast For Crows. It got better after about page 250, but still it was slow; and then like the last four chapters he dropped all kinds of bombs. The problem here is the flow of the story. It's choppy. Which is no surprise considering he sort of chopped one story into two. I did like what he did with Arya, Brienne and Jaime, though. The final Cersei chapter was great, too. I wonder what word Brienne shouted right before her implied demise? I can't figure out what she would say. And I'm not sure if I like what he did with Catelyn; the change seems too extreme and almost pointless.

I don't know. We'll see, I guess. Pretty crazy that in 2005 he was saying the next book would hopefully be out in a year. I think he's struggling with the story. Either way, I hope Arya comes back as a badass. I loved when she did away with the singer. That was awesome.


AFFC SPOILERS"

My guess for Brienne's word is "sword-" as before they had asked her to choose between "sword" and "noose"- she chooses "noose", but then sees Pod hanging so decides to choose the sword and hunt down Jaime.

Ah, that's gotta be right. Makes perfect sense.

Quote:
And I actually found AFFC to be the best structured of the series; I felt it built up quite subtly but excellently and that the POVs were interconnected in a way they haven't been throughout the series, affecting each other in subtle ways (for example, the dwarf that Brienne meets being killed and brought to Cersei, one of the Sand Snakes being in Oldtown, etc..)

And I think you're quite right in saying that he's having a lot of trouble with this part of the series. This may be because he had originally planned for there to be a five year gap between A Storm of Swords and the next book- he had actually written about half of the next book when he decided that it wasn't working and that he had to restart with A Feast For Crows. So, AFFC and ADWD are kind of the intermediary for him; I'm hoping when he's done ADWD he'll have a greater idea of where he wants the plot to go and can write faster.

You found it to be structured, I thought it was choppy. Haha. Maybe I was just so used to the beautiful chaos of the first three books that Feast just seemed like pieces were removed between the chapters that are in the book. Who knows. Still a solid read.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:30 am 
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Made the mistake of starting and then buying The King Beyond the Gate by David Gemmell when I have other books to finish and read for school. So, now I'm part way through that, The Gunslinger, Ronin, I have to read Hamlet and write a paper on Pride and Prejudice. Coool.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:44 pm 
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Eyesore (AFFC SPOILERS):




As for Catelyn, I think her transformation is pretty realistic- as of the end of her last chapter in ASOS, its pretty clear that she became completely insane, as most would when believing their last child/family member to be dead. Her complete focus on vengeance, no matter is justice, thus makes sense to me in AFFC.




Oh yes, and I've been reading Religion in the Ancient Greek City by Zaidman for a class and The Blade Itself by Joe Abercrombie.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:49 pm 
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Brahm_K wrote:
Eyesore (AFFC SPOILERS):

As for Catelyn, I think her transformation is pretty realistic- as of the end of her last chapter in ASOS, its pretty clear that she became completely insane, as most would when believing their last child/family member to be dead. Her complete focus on vengeance, no matter is justice, thus makes sense to me in AFFC.

Insane? I never got that vibe. I felt that she was miserable, but not insane at all. I'm sure being slaughter next to your son isn't a good way to go, but I just don't understand the point of his resurrecting her yet, and in doing so making her a monster, essentially.

And please, call me AL.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:43 am 
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Afro Lint wrote:
Brahm_K wrote:
Eyesore (AFFC SPOILERS):

As for Catelyn, I think her transformation is pretty realistic- as of the end of her last chapter in ASOS, its pretty clear that she became completely insane, as most would when believing their last child/family member to be dead. Her complete focus on vengeance, no matter is justice, thus makes sense to me in AFFC.

Insane? I never got that vibe. I felt that she was miserable, but not insane at all. I'm sure being slaughter next to your son isn't a good way to go, but I just don't understand the point of his resurrecting her yet, and in doing so making her a monster, essentially.

And please, call me AL.


Well Al, I meant at the very end of her last chapter, where she begins yelling about her hair and how Ned loves her hair, I take it she'd gone insane, and death couldn't have helped. But ya, her purpose in the story seems a bit strange- Martin could have pulled off the whole "destruction of the principles of the Brotherhood Without Banners" thing without her- so maybe he's plotting a meeting with some of her children?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:48 am 
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Brahm_K wrote:
Afro Lint wrote:
Brahm_K wrote:
Eyesore (AFFC SPOILERS):

As for Catelyn, I think her transformation is pretty realistic- as of the end of her last chapter in ASOS, its pretty clear that she became completely insane, as most would when believing their last child/family member to be dead. Her complete focus on vengeance, no matter is justice, thus makes sense to me in AFFC.

Insane? I never got that vibe. I felt that she was miserable, but not insane at all. I'm sure being slaughter next to your son isn't a good way to go, but I just don't understand the point of his resurrecting her yet, and in doing so making her a monster, essentially.

And please, call me AL.


Well Al, I meant at the very end of her last chapter, where she begins yelling about her hair and how Ned loves her hair, I take it she'd gone insane, and death couldn't have helped. But ya, her purpose in the story seems a bit strange- Martin could have pulled off the whole "destruction of the principles of the Brotherhood Without Banners" thing without her- so maybe he's plotting a meeting with some of her children?


SPOILERS

if he brings back Robb with a fucking wolf head, i swear i'll stop reading the series :lol:

seriously, though, the only one i see reunited with her is Sansa. i think Arya will return as a badass like AL suggested, but not as Catelyn's daughter, and she never liked Jon. as for Bran and Rickon i have no idea what they're up to, so no comments on them.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:55 am 
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Azrael wrote:
Brahm_K wrote:
Afro Lint wrote:
Brahm_K wrote:
Eyesore (AFFC SPOILERS):

As for Catelyn, I think her transformation is pretty realistic- as of the end of her last chapter in ASOS, its pretty clear that she became completely insane, as most would when believing their last child/family member to be dead. Her complete focus on vengeance, no matter is justice, thus makes sense to me in AFFC.

Insane? I never got that vibe. I felt that she was miserable, but not insane at all. I'm sure being slaughter next to your son isn't a good way to go, but I just don't understand the point of his resurrecting her yet, and in doing so making her a monster, essentially.

And please, call me AL.


Well Al, I meant at the very end of her last chapter, where she begins yelling about her hair and how Ned loves her hair, I take it she'd gone insane, and death couldn't have helped. But ya, her purpose in the story seems a bit strange- Martin could have pulled off the whole "destruction of the principles of the Brotherhood Without Banners" thing without her- so maybe he's plotting a meeting with some of her children?


SPOILERS

if he brings back Robb with a fucking wolf head, i swear i'll stop reading the series :lol:

seriously, though, the only one i see reunited with her is Sansa. i think Arya will return as a badass like AL suggested, but not as Catelyn's daughter, and she never liked Jon. as for Bran and Rickon i have no idea what they're up to, so no comments on them.


More spoilers:

Arya never liked Jon? The sibling Arya was closest to was Jon- he, through Needle, is the one connection she now has to her former life- I suspect that her relationship with Jon will prove important. I don't know how much of a badass she'll turn into, but we shall see- I'm not sure if she can ever become a true faceless man.

As for Bran... Well, he's off to meet the three eyed crow to learn his skillz, and will probably play a huge role in the battle against the Others. Rickon's off being a crazy asshat somewhere.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:59 am 
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oh i phrased that wrong. Catelyn never liked Jon Snow. i mean, she didn't hate him (he is her husband's son, and Cersei herself said that she'd kill him if she was in Cat's place), but if there's to be a family reunion envolving Catelyn and any of the Starks, Jon won't be a part of it.

edit - man, how awesome would it be if Arya (all Faceless and stuff) and Robb (with a fucking wolf head) came back and ruined everyone's shit? i mean, from a story point of view it would suck and it would be stupid, but from a purely badass point of view it works.
and what about the kindly man from the house of black and white, do you think it's Jaqen?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:08 am 
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Azrael wrote:
oh i phrased that wrong. Catelyn never liked Jon Snow. i mean, she didn't hate him (he is her husband's son, and Cersei herself said that she'd kill him if she was in Cat's place), but if there's to be a family reunion envolving Catelyn and any of the Starks, Jon won't be a part of it.

edit - man, how awesome would it be if Arya (all Faceless and stuff) and Robb (with a fucking wolf head) came back and ruined everyone's shit? i mean, from a story point of view it would suck and it would be stupid, but from a purely badass point of view it works.
and what about the kindly man from the house of black and white, do you think it's Jaqen?


Ha, I would say Cat definitely hated Jon. Her comment when Bran fell ("it should have been you" ) definitely says it all. Then there's the Blackfish's comment about Jon when Jaime offers to send him to the wall: "Catelyn told me all about him- what'd he have to do for your father to become Lord Commander?"

Ha, and that would be badass.

And sorry love, but Jaqen is in A Feast For Crows, and he ain't the man from the house of black and white. Think about where in Westeros something strange has happened concerning identity.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:26 am 
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Brahm_K wrote:
And sorry love, but Jaqen is in A Feast For Crows, and he ain't the man from the house of black and white. Think about where in Westeros something strange has happened concerning identity.

Jesus, dude. You fucking LOVE these books, huh? I just read them all and I don't seem to remember half the shit you remember. Like I don't remember Catelyn losing it like you said, about the hair and such. I wonder if I read that part in bed before I went to sleep. I often read a whole chapter in half-sleep and have no idea what I'm reading. :lol:

And Jaqen—I didn't think he was the guy from the House of Black and White, but I assumed he'd show up or was present. At first I actually thought he was Syrio, but that was never confirmed and I don't think it fits. I think I know what you're talking about, though. The beginning of A Feast for Crows, huh? I pretty much forgot about that whole thing, honestly. Interesting.

One thing for sure, this is easily the most complex story I've ever read. Does Martin always write like this?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:40 pm 
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Afro Lint wrote:
Brahm_K wrote:
And sorry love, but Jaqen is in A Feast For Crows, and he ain't the man from the house of black and white. Think about where in Westeros something strange has happened concerning identity.

Jesus, dude. You fucking LOVE these books, huh? I just read them all and I don't seem to remember half the shit you remember. Like I don't remember Catelyn losing it like you said, about the hair and such. I wonder if I read that part in bed before I went to sleep. I often read a whole chapter in half-sleep and have no idea what I'm reading. :lol:

And Jaqen—I didn't think he was the guy from the House of Black and White, but I assumed he'd show up or was present. At first I actually thought he was Syrio, but that was never confirmed and I don't think it fits. I think I know what you're talking about, though. The beginning of A Feast for Crows, huh? I pretty much forgot about that whole thing, honestly. Interesting.

One thing for sure, this is easily the most complex story I've ever read. Does Martin always write like this?


The story is incredibly complex- keep in mind though that I've read the series four times, and you'd be amazed at what you notice on your second read through, once you already have all the basic facts and characters in your head. And yep, the beginning of AFFC is right- the alchemist is described identically to the person Jaqen changes into in A Clash of Kings, and then at the end, Pate is creepily there, despite, you know, dying, and he furthermore says "like the pig boy" whereas the real Pate hated being compared to the mythical pig boy. Damn, I'm a huge nerd.

Martin's other stuff is less complex in terms of plot, but he always has a knack for a good plot twist- his other stories are mainly less complex because they usually range from 20 to 300 pages, rather than a 7 book, 4937484384 page series.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:44 pm 
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The Fall and Demise of the Roman Empire, by Edward Gibbon. Written over two decades ago and still a blast to read.


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Karmakosmonaut wrote:
The Fall and Demise of the Roman Empire, by Edward Gibbon. Written over two decades ago and still a blast to read.


Ha, sorry, but your post gave me quite a laugh. Thats the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, and it was written in the late 1700s- not two decades ago. And while its a fascinating work, I can't say I found it was a blast to read- in fact, its one of the most difficult books I've ever read, densely compacted with facts and covering over 1,000 years of history. Anyway, hope you enjoy it, but when reading it, remember that Gibbon is a product of the Enlightenment, and that you should take a lot of what he argues with a grain of salt.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:55 am 
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Brahm_K wrote:
Karmakosmonaut wrote:
The Fall and Demise of the Roman Empire, by Edward Gibbon. Written over two decades ago and still a blast to read.


Ha, sorry, but your post gave me quite a laugh. Thats the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, and it was written in the late 1700s- not two decades ago. And while its a fascinating work, I can't say I found it was a blast to read- in fact, its one of the most difficult books I've ever read, densely compacted with facts and covering over 1,000 years of history. Anyway, hope you enjoy it, but when reading it, remember that Gibbon is a product of the Enlightenment, and that you should take a lot of what he argues with a grain of salt.


I think he meant centuries...


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:13 am 
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Just finished Watchmen and Brave New World.

Now reading Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? and Murakami's Hard Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World


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