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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:29 am 
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Einherjar

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Really, the logic that the way to solve the problem of people having guns is to get one yourself is seriously flawed. I understand that people are scared, but the reality is that all that fear does is put you in more danger. You have stuff like this:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1 ... illed.html

"Overall, Branas's study found that people who carried guns were 4.5 times as likely to be shot and 4.2 times as likely to get killed compared with unarmed citizens. When the team looked at shootings in which victims had a chance to defend themselves, their odds of getting shot were even higher."

And that's not even to mention the very high possibility of a family member or someone misfiring the gun and injuring themselves or somebody else. If it was up to me, nobody would be able to buy a gun. There is not one logical reason why someone should need a gun if nobody else had one.. And the border security is another issue where fear is affecting people's perceptions; the vast majority of illegal immigrants aren't smuggling shit in and just want to live in the US.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:33 am 
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Einherjar
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I agree that no one should be allowed to buy guns.

But, obviously, the logic that no one will need a gun because no one else will have one is flawed because there are just so many guns already out and about. Even if you put in place a law making the sale of guns completely and utterly illegal, that won't make guns disappear. Wherever there's a desire, there's a supply. It's like drugs....illegal, yet everywhere.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:40 am 
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Einherjar

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Thrashtilldeth wrote:
I agree that no one should be allowed to buy guns.

But, obviously, the logic that no one will need a gun because no one else will have one is flawed because there are just so many guns already out and about. Even if you put in place a law making the sale of guns completely and utterly illegal, that won't make guns disappear. Wherever there's a desire, there's a supply. It's like drugs....illegal, yet everywhere.


Yeah, that's true. But the less people that have guns, the less there would even be any reason to have one, and I think criminalizing gun ownership/purchasing would significantly reduce the number of people who have guns. Some would still have them, yeah, but guns just don't carry the same appeal that drugs do--plus they're not addictive, haha.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:43 am 
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Einherjar

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heatseeker wrote:
And the border security is another issue where fear is affecting people's perceptions; the vast majority of illegal immigrants aren't smuggling shit in and just want to live in the US.



Of course the vast majority aren't, but there are plenty of drugs crossing the boarder. Not to mention violence coming across from those drug gangs.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:45 am 
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Einherjar

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Orion wrote:
heatseeker wrote:
And the border security is another issue where fear is affecting people's perceptions; the vast majority of illegal immigrants aren't smuggling shit in and just want to live in the US.



Of course the vast majority aren't, but there are plenty of drugs crossing the boarder. Not to mention violence coming across from those drug gangs.


Maybe we should just legalize marijuana. Then, people could just be content smoking their weed, border violence would be reduced, and we could make a shitload off of taxes. Hmmmm...not to mention that weed is less harmful than alcohol and cigarettes already.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:52 am 
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lol, I'm not convinced of your logic, but I definitely share your sentiment!


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:27 am 
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Ist Krieg
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Orion wrote:
Goat wrote:
Karmakosmonaut wrote:
After I was recently threatened by a Moroccan immigrant with a pistol after chasing him in the street because he had stolen some lass' wallet, and after the police laughs at you and says it's pointless to file charges since they all look alike and there's so many of them? Absolutely.


The only recourse is to take the law into your own hands, clearly. Jesus.



So, what are you supposed to do? Stand there and take a bullet like a man?


You remember last year when big time anti-gun advocate Senator R.C. Soles (N.C.) shot an intruder in his home?
Ooops.
These two faced bastards couldn't care less about we the people, but have no problem with guns when it comes to their own protection, or when their Secret Service goons have them.
Owning a handgun is the right, no; the duty, of every law abiding citizen in this country; the more self-reliant and self sufficient we as a people are, the less power the lying mad dogs on the Potomac have over us, and they know it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:28 am 
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/10335003.stm

That's how we (well, the Scots) roll. Family heirloom, kept under the mattress? Suuuuuure.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:03 pm 
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Ist Krieg
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http://tinyurl.com/33a6k3v

:lol:

Edited by The Management - tinyurl.com is a great site, peeps, use it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:10 pm 
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Why don't they just institute big fines for people that are caught hiring illegal immigrants? Seems the simplest solution for everyone.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:28 pm 
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Ist Krieg

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Goat wrote:
Why don't they just institute big fines for people that are caught hiring illegal immigrants? Seems the simplest solution for everyone.


In my completely unlearned guess, I think that would cause even more big business to cease manufacturing in the USA and hasten their complete production move...to China.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:32 pm 
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I'm not convinced by all this 'if you do anything to upset businesses, they'll all move halfway across the planet!' stuff. I meant more for the Burger King clones and that anyways rather than manufacturing, don't Apple etc already hire depressed Chinese commie drones to do their slave labour?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:38 pm 
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Ist Krieg

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Goat wrote:
I'm not convinced by all this 'if you do anything to upset businesses, they'll all move halfway across the planet!' stuff. I meant more for the Burger King clones and that anyways rather than manufacturing, don't Apple etc already hire depressed Chinese commie drones to do their slave labour?


Eh, as along as the economy is this bad, there will be natives willing to work fast food.

And Apple is currently employing those drones to conjure the great beast and unleash the end of days even now.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:42 pm 
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Cryofthebanshee, I'm editing your post, screwed the screen width up and it's annoying me too much.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:44 pm 
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emperorblackdoom wrote:
Goat wrote:
I'm not convinced by all this 'if you do anything to upset businesses, they'll all move halfway across the planet!' stuff. I meant more for the Burger King clones and that anyways rather than manufacturing, don't Apple etc already hire depressed Chinese commie drones to do their slave labour?


Eh, as along as the economy is this bad, there will be natives willing to work fast food.

And Apple is currently employing those drones to conjure the great beast and unleash the end of days even now.


But the fast-food places hire illegals! McDonalds hate America! Take away their ability to hire illegals, and the illegals will vanish!

Apple are scum.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:53 pm 
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Einherjar

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emperorblackdoom wrote:
Goat wrote:
I'm not convinced by all this 'if you do anything to upset businesses, they'll all move halfway across the planet!' stuff. I meant more for the Burger King clones and that anyways rather than manufacturing, don't Apple etc already hire depressed Chinese commie drones to do their slave labour?


Eh, as along as the economy is this bad, there will be natives willing to work fast food.


That's true, but, and I might be barking mad here, might this be less and less of the case in 10-20 years as Americans continue to get more opportunities for education? Could it be that America might actually become "over educated?" Not necessarily in the smartest country in the world sense, but in the "everybody has a degree and wants a 6 figure job" sense.

On the personal level increased educational opportunities are a great thing and one would think a more highly educated population would be great for the country as a whole. But, now days an undergrad degree is meaning less and less. Getting a Masters is slowly becoming the status quo, and what employers want to see on resumes. Once you spend that much time and money getting a degree you want a damn good job.

So, if the average education level continues to rise, what happens to all the simple jobs you don't need a college degree for? Who does these jobs? What happens to the basic manual labor jobs? Obviously we will never get to the point where 100% of people go to college, but the percentage will certainly continue to rise. Something has to give somewhere.

The only solution would then be for the government to continue to grow in order to provide jobs for all the people it has helped educate while restricting private enterprise.

Am I crazy?


Last edited by Orion on Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:00 pm 
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You're pretty much right. Hence the liberalisation of immigration in recent years, here especially. They're the bedrock of our economies, are migrants.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:13 pm 
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Ist Krieg

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Orion wrote:
emperorblackdoom wrote:
Goat wrote:
I'm not convinced by all this 'if you do anything to upset businesses, they'll all move halfway across the planet!' stuff. I meant more for the Burger King clones and that anyways rather than manufacturing, don't Apple etc already hire depressed Chinese commie drones to do their slave labour?


Eh, as along as the economy is this bad, there will be natives willing to work fast food.


That's true, but, and I might be barking mad here, might this be less and less of the case in 10-20 years as Americans continue to get more opportunities for education? Could it be that America might actually become "over educated?" Not necessarily in the smartest country in the world sense, but in the "everybody has a degree and wants a 6 figure job" sense.

On the personal level increased educational opportunities are a great thing and one would think a more highly educated population would be great for the country as a whole. But, now days an undergrad degree is meaning less and less. Getting a Masters is slowly becoming the status quo, and what employers want to see on resumes. Once you spend that much time and money getting a degree you want a damn good job.

So, if the average education level continues to rise, what happens to all the simple jobs you don't need a college degree for? Who does these jobs? What happens to the basic manual labor jobs? Obviously we will never get to the point where 100% of people go to college, but the percentage will certainly continue to rise. Something has to give somewhere.

The only solution would then be for the government to continue to grow in order to provide jobs for all the people it has helped educate while restricting private enterprise.

Am I crazy?


We are 'overeducated', and the declining worth of bachelor's degrees just shows how effective the university establishment has become at insisting we need to give them ever more money.

Your future scenario has a lot of merit, and it is disturbing. People are sinking ever more money into education (including expensive loans) and the jobs just aren't going to be there.

Look at how wrecked the economic prospects for the last few graduating classes have been; maybe the growing threat of people being forced to live with their parents for several years in their 20s will create a Greece sort of ageist economy and eventually strife.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:07 pm 
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010 ... -candidate

Yay! Hope he gets the party's backing.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:00 pm 
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http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/26/us/po ... ss&emc=rss

Lame. cryoftehbanshie is right about Obama.


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