First off we MUST adopt alternate energy and make oil obsolete.

I'd like to ask y'all a question. Like Sir W meant, why do these people want to live in the dark ages ? Why are they so ignorant ? Is this genetics ? Is it about their religion ? It can't be because Turkey is muslim too and we're not far behind western civilization, in fact we're catching up very fast.


???

You forget Israel, and its leading technology market. Do we abandone them to be crushed by wave upon wave of Muslims?

Israel could beat the crap out of muslims all day and have energy left to make sixty pounds of hummus from scratch.

The clinker is whether or not they support us.

I doubt it. Arabs would be all over Israel, like grasshopers is a corn field. And they know how to fight dirty. If America cant deal with a bunch of Iraqi guys with nothing other than AK47s, you can bet that Israel will get his ass kicked against such a force.

Of course, we're speaking non nuclear war.

Do you recall all the wars Israel had in the 40's, 50's, 60's, and 70's in which they kicked a bunch of Arab nation's asses? Repeatedly? With an inferior military?

Americans can't deal with the Iraqis only because the Iraqis are fighting on their home turf which they know well. In straight fights they get slaughtered, always.

I know. But Israel cannot deal with all of these countries, not in a total war, no one can. They don't have the manpower to do so. And you're right, Iraq is fighting a guerilla war but so will the other arabic countries.

Okay, you see... in order for them to fight Israel, they'll have to invade Israel.

Israel know their turf better than the invaders do. That's what defeats the Americans, not knowing the Iraqi turf, where all the caves and low spaces are and whatnot.

Kaath, there WERE total wars. FIVE armies from five nations versus Israel. Guess who won? Israel.

But it's the other way around I'm talking about. Israel attacks the Arabs and it's more than 5 nations and they're all fighting in their turf. Israel maybe able to defend against billions of people but cannot attack and control them. You obviously know Israel history better than me but I know some shit too and none of those wars were a fight to death, where the results are only victory or eradication.

Since when is Israel going to attack all the Arab nations? They're not stupid, they'd wait for them to attack and then just win again.

...yes, they were a fight to the death. All of them were a fight to the death for Israel. Not for the Arabs, of course, if that's what you mean.

Man... Israel attacking the Arabs? Not in a million Goddamn years. The international backlash would be crazy high.

I'm just talking about that scenario, I was all along. The rest of the world cuts the connection, Israel is alone there, it might happen. I'm not saying they will or they are planning to.

In real life arabs wouln't attack Israel anyway, everyone would jump on their throats, probably including Turkey.

No, Israel aren't stupid. They'd wait to be attacked and then threaten to turn Mecca into plateglass or something, and form an uneasy ceasefire.

Israel doesn't get much support from people who aren't Americans.

that's not true

I support Israel as long as they (at least try to) find peace with their neighbours... only they don't really seem to want peace...

I've always heard that Israel needs an enemy (as much as the US do) for that's the only thing that keeps the country from exploding into a ugly civil war...

the thing is arabs are a greater threat to the world than israeli are... Israel, imo, are more like caught between the hammer (US) and the anvil (the Arab World)... not an easy situation to live with...

Uh, Stefan, I meant in terms of countries, not in terms of people. Shit, I should have said that differently.