Metal Reviews :: View topic - Why God doesn’t exist (in a few paragraphs)

Old but good point, ive heard this before from some gnostic guy, he said that this argument explained how the christians god wasnt actually god but a demiurge or something like that.

God is infinite. Therefore, he knows what choice you're going to make, despite you having the freedom to make it. You're treating God logically; God is beyond logic. Who's to say that the aborted fetus wasn't making up for something done wrong in a past life?

God knows EVERYTHING. Else he isn't God. Therefore, your argument is invalid.

And I'm not arguing as a believer.

I was bought up in a largely Christian country in a relatively Christian rural community. I think it is wrong to attempt to debate things like this as I have friends who have strong beliefs in Christianity and although my theory in our existance is far removed from theirs, I wouldn't argue with them, belittle them or even call them wrong as it's cool that they have that faith.

I, on the other hand, mentioned in the abortion thread that I do not believe in a 'god' in any religious aspect or context. I live without this 'missing' piece to my existance because in my essence of being, I believe that I am a constant evolving entity descended from a chemical reaction created by time, dimension and evolution from nothing, to one day return to nothing.

If nothing means no feeling, then nothing should be blissful, as it will be a release from the pain of dying. Therefore I do not fear death. Works for me!

I think it is wrong to attempt to debate things like this as I have friends who have strong beliefs in Christianity and although my theory in our existance is far removed from theirs, I wouldn't argue with them

God is infinite. Therefore, he knows what choice you're going to make, despite you having the freedom to make it. You're treating God logically; God is beyond logic. Who's to say that the aborted fetus wasn't making up for something done wrong in a past life?

God knows EVERYTHING. Else he isn't God. Therefore, your argument is invalid.

And I'm not arguing as a believer.

Zad wrote:

And I'm not arguing as a believer.

Nothing can be beyond logic. Even people who refute this argument make that very point. For example, people often use the argument "if God can do anything, how could he make a rock so heavy he couldn't life it?" He couldn't, assuming he existed, because it's not logically possible. Just saying "God is beyond logic" isn't a good enough argument.

Zad wrote:

And I'm not arguing as a believer.

Zad wrote:

And I'm not arguing as a believer.

Zad wrote:

And I'm not arguing as a believer.

Nothing can be beyond logic.

Author:	Anonymous [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:18 am ]
Post subject:	Why God doesn’t exist (in a few paragraphs)
Well, more specifically, this argument proves why a judgmental God (such as the Christian God and most others) cannot logically exist. I’ll stick to Christianity for this, but the logic can be used for other religions. The Bible states that God has a plan for everyone. It also states that God is infinite, and that he knows everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen. Of course he does: he is God (I’m using “he” for the sake of convenience). If God knows everything, then God knows how your life will unfold. And yet he proposes to have a plan for you. Well, logically speaking, that plan cannot be different from the life you realize. Why would God have a plan for an individual that he knew, beyond a shadow of a doubt, would not be realized? Obviously, he wouldn’t. Thus, if you go to heaven, it was God’s plan for you; if you go to hell, it was his plan too; if a fetus is aborted, well, God never had any plan for that fetus. In essence, you are determined to go to heaven or hell before you’re even born. Some have tried to refute this by downgrading God (and contradicting their own scripture) by proposing that perhaps with free will, God does not know which choices you will make. If this is true, then God has limited knowledge. If he has limited knowledge, how can God even know that he is God? There could be a God above God, in which case he is not God at all. Furthermore, if God does not know everything, then the universe essentially exists above him. If God is not equal to or above the universe, he is an entity within it. If he is an entity within the universe, he is no different than a human being, and has no more right to be a moral authority than anyone. Another possible refute might involve parallel universes, but this still falls short. God would still need to know how life would unfold in each of the infinite universes, and thus people would still be bound to their fate. Furthermore, the notion of parallel universes essentially shreds up the soul: an infinite number of person A would go to heaven, and an infinite number of person A would go to hell. Think about it.

Author:	noodles [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:28 am ]
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I think of God as more of an abstract force rather than something sentient. But I think as far as a Christian god goes he pretty much just got owned.

Author:	The_Voice [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:49 am ]
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Old but good point, ive heard this before from some gnostic guy, he said that this argument explained how the christians god wasnt actually god but a demiurge or something like that.

Author:	Anonymous [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:56 am ]
Post subject:
The_Voice wrote: Old but good point, ive heard this before from some gnostic guy, he said that this argument explained how the christians god wasnt actually god but a demiurge or something like that. Yeah, the argument is not original. The refutes I can take a bit more credit for.

Author:	Ogami [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 10:21 am ]
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Always sceptical of the point when it comes to things like this. I don't think any Christian is gonna read that and be convinced (if there's any Christians on the board). And if it's trying to start a debate it's a bad move, as debating with Christians is absolutely infuriating. Still, it makes sense, and I agree with it.

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Author:	Goat [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:29 am ]
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God is infinite. Therefore, he knows what choice you're going to make, despite you having the freedom to make it. You're treating God logically; God is beyond logic. Who's to say that the aborted fetus wasn't making up for something done wrong in a past life? God knows EVERYTHING. Else he isn't God. Therefore, your argument is invalid. And I'm not arguing as a believer.

Author:	hellraiser_xes [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:52 am ]
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I think all religions are the same when it comes to the belief of God. It just differs through their philosophies and rituals. This is a very good arguement. But I won't say I'll agree with it. I think there is a God. He's gonna fuckin dieeeeeeeeeee!!!!:dio:

Author:	Dago [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:55 am ]
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No proof that God does exist=god does not exist. End of the story.

Author:	rio [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:02 pm ]
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Zad wrote: God is infinite. Therefore, he knows what choice you're going to make, despite you having the freedom to make it. You're treating God logically; God is beyond logic. Who's to say that the aborted fetus wasn't making up for something done wrong in a past life? God knows EVERYTHING. Else he isn't God. Therefore, your argument is invalid. And I'm not arguing as a believer. +1 There is no point using logic on believers. If only there were, then no doubt the world would suck less

Author:	Dylan@Metalreviews [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:19 pm ]
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Way to paraphrase the hell out of chapter 8 in my philosophy book there Jaden. Just to comment on the aborted fetuses, yes you can't tell me some of the people you know of/know personally would have made the world a better place if they were aborted. That's God's way of giving us deserving life a bit of a break.

Author:	mentalmark [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:44 pm ]
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I was bought up in a largely Christian country in a relatively Christian rural community. I think it is wrong to attempt to debate things like this as I have friends who have strong beliefs in Christianity and although my theory in our existance is far removed from theirs, I wouldn't argue with them, belittle them or even call them wrong as it's cool that they have that faith. I, on the other hand, mentioned in the abortion thread that I do not believe in a 'god' in any religious aspect or context. I live without this 'missing' piece to my existance because in my essence of being, I believe that I am a constant evolving entity descended from a chemical reaction created by time, dimension and evolution from nothing, to one day return to nothing. If nothing means no feeling, then nothing should be blissful, as it will be a release from the pain of dying. Therefore I do not fear death. Works for me!

Author:	Tlaloc [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:56 pm ]
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The christian god does not exist because the old testament of the bible is a carbon copy of The Epic of Gilgamesh; a much older Sumerian text.

Author:	SilkCrimsonMoon [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:21 pm ]
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mentalmark wrote: I was bought up in a largely Christian country in a relatively Christian rural community. I think it is wrong to attempt to debate things like this as I have friends who have strong beliefs in Christianity and although my theory in our existance is far removed from theirs, I wouldn't argue with them, belittle them or even call them wrong as it's cool that they have that faith. I, on the other hand, mentioned in the abortion thread that I do not believe in a 'god' in any religious aspect or context. I live without this 'missing' piece to my existance because in my essence of being, I believe that I am a constant evolving entity descended from a chemical reaction created by time, dimension and evolution from nothing, to one day return to nothing. If nothing means no feeling, then nothing should be blissful, as it will be a release from the pain of dying. Therefore I do not fear death. Works for me! Very well said. Personally the Chaos Theory works for me, which is basically what you said, correct?

Author:	Astaroth [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:43 pm ]
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mentalmark wrote: I think it is wrong to attempt to debate things like this as I have friends who have strong beliefs in Christianity and although my theory in our existance is far removed from theirs, I wouldn't argue with them what's wrong with that? Christians are trying to prove the opposite... so what?!?

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Author:	Anonymous [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:
Zad wrote: God is infinite. Therefore, he knows what choice you're going to make, despite you having the freedom to make it. You're treating God logically; God is beyond logic. Who's to say that the aborted fetus wasn't making up for something done wrong in a past life? God knows EVERYTHING. Else he isn't God. Therefore, your argument is invalid. And I'm not arguing as a believer. Nothing can be beyond logic. Even people who refute this argument make that very point. For example, people often use the argument "if God can do anything, how could he make a rock so heavy he couldn't life it?" He couldn't, assuming he existed, because it's not logically possible. Just saying "God is beyond logic" isn't a good enough argument.

Author:	SilkCrimsonMoon [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:05 pm ]
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Jaden wrote: Zad wrote: God is infinite. Therefore, he knows what choice you're going to make, despite you having the freedom to make it. You're treating God logically; God is beyond logic. Who's to say that the aborted fetus wasn't making up for something done wrong in a past life? God knows EVERYTHING. Else he isn't God. Therefore, your argument is invalid. And I'm not arguing as a believer. Nothing can be beyond logic. Even people who refute this argument make that very point. For example, people often use the argument "if God can do anything, how could he make a rock so heavy he couldn't life it?" He couldn't, assuming he existed, because it's not logically possible. Just saying "God is beyond logic" isn't a good enough argument. Precisely. It will go back to the argument of creating an image of God, so massive, that one will assume it is beyond logic. Although at the end of the day, it is all nothing but theories and different perspectives.

Author:	Thy Serpent [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 10:19 pm ]
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Well, I believe that God exists as in there is a supernatural force. But these kind of debates over the existence or non existence of God are never ending. To each his own.

Author:	OldSchool [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 10:31 pm ]
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Jaden wrote: Zad wrote: God is infinite. Therefore, he knows what choice you're going to make, despite you having the freedom to make it. You're treating God logically; God is beyond logic. Who's to say that the aborted fetus wasn't making up for something done wrong in a past life? God knows EVERYTHING. Else he isn't God. Therefore, your argument is invalid. And I'm not arguing as a believer. Nothing can be beyond logic. Even people who refute this argument make that very point. For example, people often use the argument "if God can do anything, how could he make a rock so heavy he couldn't life it?" He couldn't, assuming he existed, because it's not logically possible. Just saying "God is beyond logic" isn't a good enough argument. I'm puzzled. Weren't you a very enthusiastic christian?

Author:	Misha [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:37 pm ]
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Jaden wrote: Zad wrote: God is infinite. Therefore, he knows what choice you're going to make, despite you having the freedom to make it. You're treating God logically; God is beyond logic. Who's to say that the aborted fetus wasn't making up for something done wrong in a past life? God knows EVERYTHING. Else he isn't God. Therefore, your argument is invalid. And I'm not arguing as a believer. Nothing can be beyond logic. Even people who refute this argument make that very point. For example, people often use the argument "if God can do anything, how could he make a rock so heavy he couldn't life it?" He couldn't, assuming he existed, because it's not logically possible. Just saying "God is beyond logic" isn't a good enough argument. Hmm, so he couldn't make 3+3 11? Also, the laws of nature are an extend of logic, so he couldn't do a thing if he couldn't bend logic.

Author:	noodles [ Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:52 pm ]
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Jaden wrote: Zad wrote: God is infinite. Therefore, he knows what choice you're going to make, despite you having the freedom to make it. You're treating God logically; God is beyond logic. Who's to say that the aborted fetus wasn't making up for something done wrong in a past life? God knows EVERYTHING. Else he isn't God. Therefore, your argument is invalid. And I'm not arguing as a believer. Nothing can be beyond logic. God can be. He's all powerful, remember? I've always thought of religion as humanity's way of explaining stuff they can't or don't want to understand. Like death, or the meaning of life.