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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 2:23 am 
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/\ He's right.

Why the Benton hatred? The main thing about Deicide is that it's Jesus-hating, headbanging death metal! Vital Remains for alcoholics! Since when are christians acceptable in metal?

Matt Heafy is an annoying, jumped-up little fuck.

The overall prize, though, has to go to *shock* Ihsahn! All very well setting yourself up as the most intelligent man in Metal, but when you haven't made a decent album since 'Anthems' and your wife is a better composer than you are... just fuck off, and shut up about all your music degrees. Enslaved were always better, and Grutle has much sexier hair.


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 2:28 am 
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Zad wrote:
/\ He's right.

Why the Benton hatred? The main thing about Deicide is that it's Jesus-hating, headbanging death metal! Vital Remains for alcoholics! Since when are christians acceptable in metal?

Matt Heafy is an annoying, jumped-up little fuck.

The overall prize, though, has to go to *shock* Ihsahn! All very well setting yourself up as the most intelligent man in Metal, but when you haven't made a decent album since 'Anthems' and your wife is a better composer than you are... just fuck off, and shut up about all your music degrees. Enslaved were always better, and Grutle has much sexier hair.


And a sexier voice and beard!


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 5:46 am 
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Ist Krieg

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Enslaved may have always been better than Emperor, but Anthems the last decent Emperor album? No way. I'd take Prometheus over Anthems, and IX Equilbrium was fine for what it was. Of course Ihsahn's solo album is a different story...


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 8:04 am 
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emperorblackdoom wrote:
Enslaved may have always been better than Emperor, but Anthems the last decent Emperor album? No way. I'd take Prometheus over Anthems, and IX Equilbrium was fine for what it was. Of course Ihsahn's solo album is a different story...


Agreed. It's complete shite.

Anthems was the last good thing they made, before becoming a
Morbid Angel wannabe band. :(

.:crast:.


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 10:40 am 
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crast wrote:
emperorblackdoom wrote:
Enslaved may have always been better than Emperor, but Anthems the last decent Emperor album? No way. I'd take Prometheus over Anthems, and IX Equilbrium was fine for what it was. Of course Ihsahn's solo album is a different story...


Agreed. It's complete shite.

Anthems was the last good thing they made, before becoming a
Morbid Angel wannabe band. :(

.:crast:.


Yey, Fred agrees!

I'm not saying Emperor from Anthems on are complete shit, I'm just saying the drop in quality is so extreme that it seems like that in comparison. Ihriel's Star Of Ash album is better by far than the last two Emperor albums.


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 1:51 pm 
Zad wrote:
/\ He's right.

Why the Benton hatred? The main thing about Deicide is that it's Jesus-hating, headbanging death metal! Vital Remains for alcoholics! Since when are christians acceptable in metal?


I wouldn't mind Benton so much if he wasn't such a poser in his interviews. You have to realize, when I think of "most irritating person in metal", I think of an irritating personality. Not really irritating music.

And don't kid yourself. There's actually more Christianity in the metal scene than a lot of metal fans (want to) realize.


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 2:52 pm 
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I dont know much about Benton, but you have to be pretty retarded to burn an upside down cross into your forehead multiple times till your veins are burnt to a crisp. And then when your son asks you what happened, you say you fell down in church.

I think the Clown in the Spawn movie said it best:
"How come God gets all the good followers, and we're left with the retards?"


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 3:27 pm 
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DevilsAlwaysCry wrote:
And then when your son asks you what happened, you say you fell down in church.
What? Where did you hear that? :blink:


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 3:28 pm 
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Ist Krieg
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If a poll opened Ken would win for sure. He has my vote.


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 5:34 pm 
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Quote:
The overall prize, though, has to go to *shock* Ihsahn! All very well setting yourself up as the most intelligent man in Metal, but when you haven't made a decent album since 'Anthems' and your wife is a better composer than you are... just fuck off, and shut up about all your music degrees. Enslaved were always better, and Grutle has much sexier hair.


Really? He seems alright to me. I guess it helps that I really like the first two Emperor albums. Sure, he can be a little arrogant at times, but isn't that part of the black metal attitude?

Quote:
Why the Benton hatred? The main thing about Deicide is that it's Jesus-hating, headbanging death metal! Vital Remains for alcoholics! Since when are christians acceptable in metal?


my main problem with Benton is that he's completely one dimensional. Just once, I'd like to see him write a song about something else. Also, there's no intelligence in his anti-christianity. He makes Kerry King look like Richard Dawkins.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 7:10 pm 
Mintrude wrote:
Quote:
The overall prize, though, has to go to *shock* Ihsahn! All very well setting yourself up as the most intelligent man in Metal, but when you haven't made a decent album since 'Anthems' and your wife is a better composer than you are... just fuck off, and shut up about all your music degrees. Enslaved were always better, and Grutle has much sexier hair.


Really? He seems alright to me. I guess it helps that I really like the first two Emperor albums. Sure, he can be a little arrogant at times, but isn't that part of the black metal attitude?

Quote:
Why the Benton hatred? The main thing about Deicide is that it's Jesus-hating, headbanging death metal! Vital Remains for alcoholics! Since when are christians acceptable in metal?


my main problem with Benton is that he's completely one dimensional. Just once, I'd like to see him write a song about something else. Also, there's no intelligence in his anti-christianity. He makes Kerry King look like Richard Dawkins.


Exactly. Bad Religion has quite a few anti-Christian songs (disclaimer: the religious beliefs of the individual band members vary wildly, but lead vocalist/songwriter Greg Graffin is a self-admitted atheist), but they're intelligent and thoughtfully written anti-Christian songs. Benton's lyrics, on the other hand, are just stupid "shock your parents and society and look like a big-shot in front of your friends" lyrics. I don't think he's ever written about anything else in ages.

Why shouldn't Christianity be more acceptable in metal, anyway? Are metalheads so superficial and insecure about themselves that they're afraid if they listen to something "positive/good-natured" they'll look like sissies? For the record, if done right, Christianity can actually go fairly well with metal. Helloween, Megadeth, Theocracy, Savotage. All are good metal bands with Christian leanings. The problem is that a lot of Christian metal amounts to being an obvious attempt at "playing HEAVY F'N MUSIC WITH INSPIRED LYRICS!!!" that it just comes off as being really cheesy/annoying. But there are ways you can write Christian metal without falling into that trap.


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 7:19 pm 
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Mintrude wrote:
Really? He seems alright to me. I guess it helps that I really like the first two Emperor albums. Sure, he can be a little arrogant at times, but isn't that part of the black metal attitude?


I guess I agree with this. Sure Ihsahn is overrated by some and I thought his solo album was very disappointing but he never struck me as exceddingly arrogant. I'd imagine his hometown Notodden awarded him that cultural prize for him being a locally respected teacher of music...not because he bribed him or threaten to curse their livestock or something. :lol:

Ihsahn isn't the greatest but not everyone can be as good as the main guy from Enslaved---Ivar Bjornson.


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 8:03 pm 
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Quote:
Why shouldn't Christianity be more acceptable in metal, anyway? Are metalheads so superficial and insecure about themselves that they're afraid if they listen to something "positive/good-natured" they'll look like sissies? For the record, if done right, Christianity can actually go fairly well with metal. Helloween, Megadeth, Theocracy, Savotage. All are good metal bands with Christian leanings. The problem is that a lot of Christian metal amounts to being an obvious attempt at "playing HEAVY F'N MUSIC WITH INSPIRED LYRICS!!!" that it just comes off as being really cheesy/annoying. But there are ways you can write Christian metal without falling into that trap.


I think the problem with the vast majority of Christian metal sucks balls is because the need to evangelize is always put before the need to well... write a good song.


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 8:09 pm 
Mintrude wrote:
Quote:
Why shouldn't Christianity be more acceptable in metal, anyway? Are metalheads so superficial and insecure about themselves that they're afraid if they listen to something "positive/good-natured" they'll look like sissies? For the record, if done right, Christianity can actually go fairly well with metal. Helloween, Megadeth, Theocracy, Savotage. All are good metal bands with Christian leanings. The problem is that a lot of Christian metal amounts to being an obvious attempt at "playing HEAVY F'N MUSIC WITH INSPIRED LYRICS!!!" that it just comes off as being really cheesy/annoying. But there are ways you can write Christian metal without falling into that trap.


I think the problem with the vast majority of Christian metal sucks balls is because the need to evangelize is always put before the need to well... write a good song.


Actually, that's one of my biggest problems with the hardcore Christian community. ANY music with the name "Jesus" thrown into its lyrics in a positive sense is automatically eaten up by it, regardless of whether or not the music itself is any good. Regardless of how religious you are, why should you listen only to non-secular music, etc. and (even worse) base your judgement of music solely by how religious it is rather than how (musically) good it is?


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 8:44 pm 
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The only christian metal band (as in a metal band with christian themes, not just christian members) that's worth a damn is Trouble.


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 8:59 pm 
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Ist Krieg
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The problem with many anti-christian outspoken people is just what was said before, that they're stupid about it. Now, if you could argue intelligently against Christianity, using sociology, history, psychology and logic, that would be something else.

_________________
I am not here, then, as the accused; I am here as the accuser of capitalism dripping with blood from head to foot.


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 9:00 pm 
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Seinfeld26 wrote:
Mintrude wrote:
Quote:
Why shouldn't Christianity be more acceptable in metal, anyway? Are metalheads so superficial and insecure about themselves that they're afraid if they listen to something "positive/good-natured" they'll look like sissies? For the record, if done right, Christianity can actually go fairly well with metal. Helloween, Megadeth, Theocracy, Savotage. All are good metal bands with Christian leanings. The problem is that a lot of Christian metal amounts to being an obvious attempt at "playing HEAVY F'N MUSIC WITH INSPIRED LYRICS!!!" that it just comes off as being really cheesy/annoying. But there are ways you can write Christian metal without falling into that trap.


I think the problem with the vast majority of Christian metal sucks balls is because the need to evangelize is always put before the need to well... write a good song.


Actually, that's one of my biggest problems with the hardcore Christian community. ANY music with the name "Jesus" thrown into its lyrics in a positive sense is automatically eaten up by it, regardless of whether or not the music itself is any good. Regardless of how religious you are, why should you listen only to non-secular music, etc. and (even worse) base your judgement of music solely by how religious it is rather than how (musically) good it is?


Hmm...you have some valid points there Seinfeld. If you replaced "God/Jesus" with "Dad/Bully" in any of Benton's songs, you would have straight up Nu-tastic lyrics. Having said that, christianity couldn't find really ask for a tougher medium to use in order to promote their beliefs. As far as lyrical themes and general ideaology goes, metal has a very hard time gelling with Christianity. Metal is about rebelling, thinking for yourself, being individualistic, challenging established status quos and fucking dead women. Although Christianity may have been rebelious and challenging when it was first established, that is not the case for its current state.

Plus....who thinks of pointy-shaped guitars, searing distortion, blastbeats, epic, self-indulgent solos, vocals that no matter what the tone, almost always come out sounding agressive as fuck when they think of anything holy? Even if a christian band is really good musically, the medium they are using to express their values and beleifs just seems out of place. Sort of like a store that sells stuffed toys modeled after reptiles with sharp teeth complaining that little kids don't want to play with their toys.


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 9:48 pm 
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Mortification is the best argument for keeping Christianity out of Metal there is. They can play, but that douchbag singer writes his sermons that he passes off as lyrics first and writes some sloppy half-assed Thrash riffs around his message. The music takes a back seat to his self-indulgent preaching. At least Deicide managed to put out a kick-ass album musically last year.

Let's not forget that Living Sacrifice, another 'heavy-hitter" of the Christian Metal scene, is nothing more than a blatant Slayer rip-off.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 11:20 pm 
Dylan@Metalreviews wrote:
Seinfeld26 wrote:
Mintrude wrote:
Quote:
Why shouldn't Christianity be more acceptable in metal, anyway? Are metalheads so superficial and insecure about themselves that they're afraid if they listen to something "positive/good-natured" they'll look like sissies? For the record, if done right, Christianity can actually go fairly well with metal. Helloween, Megadeth, Theocracy, Savotage. All are good metal bands with Christian leanings. The problem is that a lot of Christian metal amounts to being an obvious attempt at "playing HEAVY F'N MUSIC WITH INSPIRED LYRICS!!!" that it just comes off as being really cheesy/annoying. But there are ways you can write Christian metal without falling into that trap.


I think the problem with the vast majority of Christian metal sucks balls is because the need to evangelize is always put before the need to well... write a good song.


Actually, that's one of my biggest problems with the hardcore Christian community. ANY music with the name "Jesus" thrown into its lyrics in a positive sense is automatically eaten up by it, regardless of whether or not the music itself is any good. Regardless of how religious you are, why should you listen only to non-secular music, etc. and (even worse) base your judgement of music solely by how religious it is rather than how (musically) good it is?


Hmm...you have some valid points there Seinfeld. If you replaced "God/Jesus" with "Dad/Bully" in any of Benton's songs, you would have straight up Nu-tastic lyrics. Having said that, christianity couldn't find really ask for a tougher medium to use in order to promote their beliefs. As far as lyrical themes and general ideaology goes, metal has a very hard time gelling with Christianity. Metal is about rebelling, thinking for yourself, being individualistic, challenging established status quos and fucking dead women. Although Christianity may have been rebelious and challenging when it was first established, that is not the case for its current state.

Plus....who thinks of pointy-shaped guitars, searing distortion, blastbeats, epic, self-indulgent solos, vocals that no matter what the tone, almost always come out sounding agressive as fuck when they think of anything holy? Even if a christian band is really good musically, the medium they are using to express their values and beleifs just seems out of place. Sort of like a store that sells stuffed toys modeled after reptiles with sharp teeth complaining that little kids don't want to play with their toys.


I'd say Power Metal is probably the genre most welcoming of Christian lyrical themes (notice most of the "Good Bands" I've mentioned are power metal bands). But I definitely see what you're saying about the whole rebellion/thinking-for-yourself/etc. attitude that makes metal what it is. Plus, during its rise in the 80s, Christians were having a field day trashing the genre (of course, some Christians were even calling Super Mario Brothers "Satanic" - I kid you not, folks). So I can see where the metal genre would take advantage of that "bad" publicity.

It's interesting that you mention technical musicianship, etc. because Dream Theater actually has a slight Christian leaning in a couple of their songs (even though they're not at all a "Christian band"). Ditto to Queen (who was probably among the forefathers of prog/art rock/metal).


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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 3:23 am 
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crast wrote:
emperorblackdoom wrote:
Enslaved may have always been better than Emperor, but Anthems the last decent Emperor album? No way. I'd take Prometheus over Anthems, and IX Equilbrium was fine for what it was. Of course Ihsahn's solo album is a different story...


Agreed. It's complete shite.

Anthems was the last good thing they made, before becoming a
Morbid Angel wannabe band. :(

.:crast:.


They never sounded like Morbid Angel. Ever. O.o

And I love Emperor.

And I heard a song from Ihsahn's solo album, and it wasn't that bad.


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