Metal Reviews

Recently we've been butting heads a little bit over the correct method and approach to songwriting. We're five people, all with different tastes (although recently everyone except the singer has been moving towards the same direction) and we all want our creative input to be recognized and valued to some extent.
Now, my question is, what do you find is the most efficient way to write a song? It's very difficult for five people to out their heads together and just produce. Previously, we would initially divide into groups of two or three people and come up with the general skeleton of the song, adornments and arrangements would be done by everyone later. However, recently there's been an increase in the desire to write the whole thing with all five people involved from the start, but the past two months have been entirely unproductive.
So, for those of you involved in bands, past or present, how to write a song??

I know exactly how you feel, and that is the main reason we split up our band... However, I recommend you and the one with the relatively same raste as you to get together and write. Show him your riff(s), let him come with constructive critisism, and finish the fucking song, so the others have little if not nothing to pick on.

Watch Some Kind of Monster.

The last thing we need is songwriting tips from Metallica.

You're probably right. You should probably listen to a good band like Nickelback.

Seriously, though, you can't just jam together and come up with stuff?

Hey, leave Nickelback alone!

The problem is the following, the four musicians (me, other guitar, bass and drums) have all evolved musically since our first CD, and now we want to play a much more modern type of metal, one we've christened, half seriously and half jokingly, "heavycore". It's apt, as the basis of the music is still heavy metal, but the approach, the way we use it, and especially the riffs are highly influenced by more recent genres such as melodeath, prog, thrash and as our other guitar player is a huge metalcore fan and comes up with great badass riffs, metalcore. The only problem is that the singer, who is incredibly close minded (listens to only about 4 bands) is incapable of supplying vocal lines that fit the music (there's an obvious dissonance in the pre-productions, it really stands out horribly) and is holding us back in the composition phase, as he rejects everything the four of us come up with.

I don't saee what the headache's about really.

You're probably making the songs more complicated than necessary for starters. Look at old guitar tabs and notice how few licks there are to learn. Start here.

Someone will evetually write a good lick, just build around it. If your problem is that everyone wants to play a different song at the same time, then there's going to be serious trouble unless one of you has a music degree and can make everything fit together. Bands like Rush and Dream Theater are an exception to the rules. Don't forget this.

JUst write a good riff and let everyone else work their way into it. Have the bassist write a similar riff based on yours. Make sure the drums fit the material.

Just write parts of songs and change them and fit them into whatever you need them to be to make it work.

I think you guys need to listen to some more music since you are having this much trouble. Go listen to stuff like Chicago's "25 or 6 to 4" to see how a large band can take one idea and maximize its potential with a lot of help from various people. That song sounds great and its just one simple riff. There's a lot of icing on that cake too.

Bake the cake, then put on the icing.

I was looking forward to your advice, Adveser, and that's probably what'll end up happening, we've all been carried away with "thinking our songs out".
Our singer's limitations, however, IS a problem. For someone who only knows Manowar, Maiden and Priest, and doesn't even come up with similarly good vocal lines, what bands/albums/songs should we give him? I was thinking of Alice in Chain's "Dirt" and some Nevermore, for starters.

Thank you, FS, I would tell him to sing along to guitar lines, if he can, I've never had a problem with that, I think it's easier than singing the vocal lines. Honestly this is the easiest way to learn good melodies for singing. Humming along to guitar melodies and leads is good exercise.

Another point to make is that generally Ozzy Osbourne would sing along the the guitar riffs according to Tony, so maybe going that simplistic is the way to start.

If you're talking about lyrics, that's really kind of based on what the songs are aiming for. If you want people singing along and such, there's one way to go. If you want to tell stories that's another. Reading good lyrics will help a lot, just notice what patterns and techniques they employ.

If you can get the singer to post in here, I could probabaly help him more because its difficult to know how he's singing the songs and there's a lot of "right" ways to do it.

How is he singing, just tell me who he sounds like and tell me about any deviations in the sound of the original. If I know that, I could probably steer him in the right direction. (for example, I wouldn't tell someone who wants to be the next Udo to listen to Saxon and sing like Biff, it sounds like it would work, but it just doesn't. Similarly, Rush fans should sing some Motorhead songs, that DOES work regardless of how different their tone is. See where i'm going with this?

Since you guys are not (i'm guessing) extremely proficient at playing (meaning you can't listen to a Symphony X song once and Nail it on the second listen) Just start with the basics, read tabs, take notice which note progressions seem to be popular that you like. Learn from the past.

Another point I wanted to make is listen to music together and stop the music and talk about it with the other songwriters. Be very specific about what you like. Even if half the guys are fans of the same bands, you might not be drawn by the same sounds. If there's a melody you like, drop a hint, tell everyone you like it and want to do stuff exactly like that. Being specific and knowing what everyone likes will help a ton.

I hope this has helped.

Hey... You're good at this Adveser, but I honestly don't think you'll be able to make the guy sing stuff he don't want to.. And quite frankly figrid, if the four of you agree on what you're doing then don't let him stop you from doing that. You and I know what that means...

And it's not easy to make good prog or mix in good prog. I've played and written for nine years now, and I'm still struggling loads with it. And do not set your goals too high, that will disappoint you.

My point exactly. Start playing Deep Purple songs, then move on to Rainbow, then Alcatrazz, then Impelliteri, (or insert more relevant examples). Then you can play some Yngwie stuff. Don't go to Yngwie right away. Remember, even he started somewhere (which BTW was Sails Of Charon) Start at the beginning. Keep making progress. When you feel comfortable, stick with it. After a few months, the "old" songs may even start seeming childishly simple, but if its a decent song, use it anyway.

I for one am more impressed with a good song than technical ability or complexity.

I've said it before, but beware of the pitfalls associated with writing. This means play a riff a few times, write it down so you don't forget and then re-evaluate it as necessary.

So many bands release terrible records because they fall in love with a riff by playing it so many times. They start hearing melody that doesn't exist.

You're in a better posiution than I am because you have three other guys to tell you if it sucks. I have to take it basically on faith that something I write is good.

If you simply come up with stuff you like, someone out there will be into it too.

The easiest and maybe not so obvious thing is to play music you enjoy playing. I take it that if you're playing some form of Metal, than marketability is not too much of a concern. If it is, I can tell you exactly what to do to become marketable.

One thing that I do is if there's some note progression I like, I'll look up the tabs and figure out what notes are being used and re-work it to fit the song i've got going. Remember, this isn't plagurism, this is music theory on the fast track.

Sorry for the long posts

Umm... Actually we're considering the Serpent's Kiss as a possible cover, we're not that bad technically ^^
The problem with the singer is that he only knows one way of singing, and is really opposed to learning other ways. For him it's a showcase of "how good I am", so he's always singing at the top of his register, which he thinks sounds cool. There's very little melody, and we're all pissed off. Our first cd had these songs on it (www.myspace.com/soulsmirror) but the music sounds like a whole different band now, and the vocals are really out of place.

What do you think would be best? kick the guy, or keep the guy? Seriously, if you're as ambitious as I think you are, you should get a new one who actually takes interest in what you're doing.. We had the same problem with our drummer.

Not that I've ever been in a band or anything, but if you want harsher vocals are none of you playas capable? Thrash yells aren't particularly hard, and I'm sure at least one of you could manage the odd growl.

When it comes to Canopy most of the song writing is done by one of the guitarists, however, the other guitarist, the bassist and the drummer all have contributed with riffs and lyrics.

I usually take care of the lyrics/vocal arrangements together with Jonatan.


.:crast:.

I'm just a poor drummer with no compositional skills whatsoever so I just happily blast at whatever the other dudes bring to the rehearsing room ! ^^

Start coming up with melody lines on guitar for him to sing. If he refuses to sing the lines, fire him right then and there.

If does so and has no problem doing it, then maybe someone else needs to write the vocal melodies.

He's technically good, and it would be hard to find someone as good in the geographically limited area we find ourselves in.
But is it really fair to give the singer his vocal lines? I'd be pissed off if someone started writing all my solos.

As for the "growling", our guitar player has an immense core growl. Again, the problem is that our singer flatly refuses out of hand anything like that.

Sounds like you want to get rid of your singer...

Fire him, switch to growls, and get someone's girlfriend to do any clean vocals that need doing.