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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:53 am 
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Adveser wrote:
FrigidSymphony wrote:
but what about someone who's trying to find info on a band and would be spared wasting his money because he gets warned by a negative review? IMO the purpose of the site should be to provide objective reviews for as many albums as possible, whether good or bad.


I thought about it for a little while, but I honestly don't see this as being good.

Alright, first of all, we are gonna have to agree that MR is trageted towards a certain market, that being underground metal (whether or not it became mainstream is beyond the point)

Now, why is MR writing reviews for mainstream Nu-metal acts? Obviously, no regular viewer of this site is coming here for that. I started coming here because I wanted to see what promotional material from the indie labels was worth listening to and MR succeeds at that.

Now, I consider the attitude towards mainstream metal acts to be hostiule at best and honestly don't believe anything written in this vein because it is biased towards believing there is no way these bands are good. Historically, it has been shown the vast majority of these acts were not very good and are poorly regarded now.

I am not one that can go back in time and change the way i thought about something during inception, so i tend to have a solid opinion once it is formed. It doesn't shift from year to year as some others might.

I am a fan of almost all the NM bands I used to listen to and coming from that perspective, I don't see the point in going back and retroactively giving these albums shitty reviews. They are no use to me or anyone that likes this form of metal, they seem to only exist as a way to justify current opinions and suggest that in the grand scheme of things the underground metal this site has covered for years has now become more important historically and musically.

Calling the new slipknot record a piece of shit doesn't do anything but make the site look elitist, snobby and too good to review anything anyone's heard about in the mainstream press.

Simply ignoring these bands and records is the most effective way to not only marginize these efforts (since I believe that is the goal here) but make them historically irrelevant.

People can say whatever they want about being fans, but the reality is that when you see nothing but retroactive bad reviews for nu-metal and even worse reviews for the new stuff coming out, there doesn't seem to be an credibility to the effect that this music is appreciated at all, thus, why would you take it seriously as a viewer? If MR had the opinon that rap sucks (not saying it does or doesn't either way) why would they bother reviewing any albums from the genre? no one that enjoys it would consider it credible and those who never liked it would have their opinion reaffiremed, most likely in error.

The responsibility of giving us your insight comes at the cost that you must remain credible and shitting on a sub-genre constantly acheives nothing in this regard. I'm far less inclined to trust a review when obvious polotics and historical manuevering have worked their way into the albums reviews and quotes.

I like this site better when experts reviewed things within their realm of expertise rather than stretching out and taking the opportunity to make it known that anything deviating from such isn't worth your time.


this site is still eons better then Metal Archives


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:12 am 
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Adveser wrote:
FrigidSymphony wrote:
but what about someone who's trying to find info on a band and would be spared wasting his money because he gets warned by a negative review? IMO the purpose of the site should be to provide objective reviews for as many albums as possible, whether good or bad.


I thought about it for a little while, but I honestly don't see this as being good.

Alright, first of all, we are gonna have to agree that MR is trageted towards a certain market, that being underground metal (whether or not it became mainstream is beyond the point)

Now, why is MR writing reviews for mainstream Nu-metal acts? Obviously, no regular viewer of this site is coming here for that. I started coming here because I wanted to see what promotional material from the indie labels was worth listening to and MR succeeds at that.

Now, I consider the attitude towards mainstream metal acts to be hostiule at best and honestly don't believe anything written in this vein because it is biased towards believing there is no way these bands are good. Historically, it has been shown the vast majority of these acts were not very good and are poorly regarded now.

I am not one that can go back in time and change the way i thought about something during inception, so i tend to have a solid opinion once it is formed. It doesn't shift from year to year as some others might.

I am a fan of almost all the NM bands I used to listen to and coming from that perspective, I don't see the point in going back and retroactively giving these albums shitty reviews. They are no use to me or anyone that likes this form of metal, they seem to only exist as a way to justify current opinions and suggest that in the grand scheme of things the underground metal this site has covered for years has now become more important historically and musically.

Calling the new slipknot record a piece of shit doesn't do anything but make the site look elitist, snobby and too good to review anything anyone's heard about in the mainstream press.

Simply ignoring these bands and records is the most effective way to not only marginize these efforts (since I believe that is the goal here) but make them historically irrelevant.

People can say whatever they want about being fans, but the reality is that when you see nothing but retroactive bad reviews for nu-metal and even worse reviews for the new stuff coming out, there doesn't seem to be an credibility to the effect that this music is appreciated at all, thus, why would you take it seriously as a viewer? If MR had the opinon that rap sucks (not saying it does or doesn't either way) why would they bother reviewing any albums from the genre? no one that enjoys it would consider it credible and those who never liked it would have their opinion reaffiremed, most likely in error.

The responsibility of giving us your insight comes at the cost that you must remain credible and shitting on a sub-genre constantly acheives nothing in this regard. I'm far less inclined to trust a review when obvious polotics and historical manuevering have worked their way into the albums reviews and quotes.

I like this site better when experts reviewed things within their realm of expertise rather than stretching out and taking the opportunity to make it known that anything deviating from such isn't worth your time.


Now this is actually interesting. I could agree with everything you've just said except that you seem to think that I (or the other reviewers here) hate the nu-metal sub-genre and further that I am seeking to single it out simply with the end goal of inflating my own ego and my beliefs about "the mainstream".

As I stated in the review, I do not have an inherent hate for nu-metal, in fact I think there's a lot of talent there and a lot of good stuff. As I also mentioned in this thread, I even considered not writing this review because of how terrible the album is. BUT I went into listening to this album with no opinion either way. As I said, I had never heard of the band before. It was recommended to me by a friend and I honestly wanted to hear something good, as I do every time I put on music I've never heard before. This "music" honestly disgusted me.

Now, I plan on reviewing more nu/alternative metal some that is probably good, some probably not so good. I think (objectively) separating the good from the bad is something this site has to do, in EVERY area of metal. It's called METAL reviews for crying the fuck out loud!

I am a fan of metal. That includes ALL metal, and while I have no intention of speaking for the rest of the site's audience, I would hope that they are as well.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:31 am 
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Good point Adveser but you have to remember that elitist sites despise hardcore most grindcore, punk, sludge, drone and so on too. Those genres get a lot of attention here, from myself included.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:48 am 
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Why does an album like this get 3 pages anyway :unsure:


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:02 am 
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But the site's name is "METAL REVIEWS". I remember when I first find it (by googling "metal reviews") it was because I wanted reviews of albums so I would know what to buy or not and what to look for. IMO anything that falls even slightly under the metal spectrum, be it nu-metal, metalcore, or whatever deserves a review. A fair, honest, objective one. The album should be reviewed for what it is, and judged for its success at what it's trying to do. For example, Korn's debut is a very good album, but someone who needs solos in every song will hate it. This doesn't mean it's bad; solos are not objectively a necessity for good music; it just means that Korn are trying to do something else with their music, and IMO succeed very well at it.
If it's in some way metal, it should be reviewed honestly. Which is why we need reviewers who aren't into the whole underground thing and can give their opinion of a metalcore CD as a metalcore, pointing out what makes the album good for metalcore, not for say, death metal.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:10 am 
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metal_xxx wrote:
Good point Adveser but you have to remember that elitist sites despise hardcore most grindcore, punk, sludge, drone and so on too. Those genres get a lot of attention here, from myself included.


O rly? Where? I've seen a tiny bit of discussion on grindcore (no wait, its GRIND!!11!, different thing duh :rolleyes: ), hardcore and drone, but have seen no punk or sludge discussion.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:03 pm 
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MetalCrypt for example is very elitist..


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 6:44 pm 
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noodles wrote:
also it's silly to say i need to spend money on something to truly appreciate it. i might be quicker to dismiss something if i haven't spent money, but i can appreciate the stuff i don't dismiss just fine

I completely disagree. You can't appreciate how hard it is to farm unless you get down there and start farming. It's called sacrifice. When you can't have any album you want, you'll learn the difference between enjoying something and truly appreciating something.

And I'm not trying to sound all snooty when I say that. It's just a fact, and it goes for me, too.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:11 pm 
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nah the only sacrifice someone needs to make to appreciate music is the energy it takes to focus on it


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:41 am 
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@ Adveser:

You clearly haven't been paying much attention to the site. A wide range of music gets reviewed, and nothing is automatically dismissed. I frequently get promos of experimental Rock from Exile On Mainstream Records, for example, and those reviews get completely and utterly ignored. What, I have to restrict myself to underground Metal only? What a ridiculous thing to say. Your post is basically the butthurt whining of a Nu-Metal fan complaining that an album he used to like got a panning. Looking back at the 90s is only to be expected from an 'underground Metal site' - one that reviews everything from Rush to Foo Fighters on the side!

Assuming your Slipknot comment was directed at me, being the writer of the last Slipknot review, I went out of my way to make sure that the review given was fair. People actually reading the reviews here instead of looking at the score and the bitching of forumites would know this. No credibility for the site because we give nothing but poor scores?! BOLLOCKS. Read reviews for albums other than you've already heard, and you'll know that plenty of praise is given out. Have you read the Deftones reviews here? The Alt Metal coverage this site gives is excellent.

And assuming that we're all underground kvltists goes only to show how little you know of us. 'Within our realm of expertise' - what snobby nonsense! We'll review what we like, giving our personal viewpoints, and your whining because it doesn't fit in with your (probably just as biased as you accuse us of being) opinion is taken with the pinch of salt that it deserves.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:45 am 
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Adveser wrote:
FrigidSymphony wrote:
but what about someone who's trying to find info on a band and would be spared wasting his money because he gets warned by a negative review? IMO the purpose of the site should be to provide objective reviews for as many albums as possible, whether good or bad.


I thought about it for a little while, but I honestly don't see this as being good.

Alright, first of all, we are gonna have to agree that MR is trageted towards a certain market, that being underground metal (whether or not it became mainstream is beyond the point)

Now, why is MR writing reviews for mainstream Nu-metal acts? Obviously, no regular viewer of this site is coming here for that. I started coming here because I wanted to see what promotional material from the indie labels was worth listening to and MR succeeds at that.

Now, I consider the attitude towards mainstream metal acts to be hostiule at best and honestly don't believe anything written in this vein because it is biased towards believing there is no way these bands are good. Historically, it has been shown the vast majority of these acts were not very good and are poorly regarded now.

I am not one that can go back in time and change the way i thought about something during inception, so i tend to have a solid opinion once it is formed. It doesn't shift from year to year as some others might.

I am a fan of almost all the NM bands I used to listen to and coming from that perspective, I don't see the point in going back and retroactively giving these albums shitty reviews. They are no use to me or anyone that likes this form of metal, they seem to only exist as a way to justify current opinions and suggest that in the grand scheme of things the underground metal this site has covered for years has now become more important historically and musically.

Calling the new slipknot record a piece of shit doesn't do anything but make the site look elitist, snobby and too good to review anything anyone's heard about in the mainstream press.

Simply ignoring these bands and records is the most effective way to not only marginize these efforts (since I believe that is the goal here) but make them historically irrelevant.

People can say whatever they want about being fans, but the reality is that when you see nothing but retroactive bad reviews for nu-metal and even worse reviews for the new stuff coming out, there doesn't seem to be an credibility to the effect that this music is appreciated at all, thus, why would you take it seriously as a viewer? If MR had the opinon that rap sucks (not saying it does or doesn't either way) why would they bother reviewing any albums from the genre? no one that enjoys it would consider it credible and those who never liked it would have their opinion reaffiremed, most likely in error.

The responsibility of giving us your insight comes at the cost that you must remain credible and shitting on a sub-genre constantly acheives nothing in this regard. I'm far less inclined to trust a review when obvious polotics and historical manuevering have worked their way into the albums reviews and quotes.

I like this site better when experts reviewed things within their realm of expertise rather than stretching out and taking the opportunity to make it known that anything deviating from such isn't worth your time.


Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 1:02 am 
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Ist Krieg
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Goat wrote:
We'll review what we like, giving our personal viewpoints,


yeah! you should stick to reviewing what you like! my reasoning behind negative reviews being pointless is, even with people who have very similar taste to me, there's still a ton of stuff they dislike that i like. so i really don't care when people say something sucks. i guess negative reviews were more useful pre-myspace/music downloading for the reason Fridge said.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 1:05 am 
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noodles wrote:
Goat wrote:
We'll review what we like, giving our personal viewpoints,


yeah! you should stick to reviewing what you like! my reasoning behind negative reviews being pointless is, even with people who have very similar taste to me, there's still a ton of stuff they dislike that i like. so i really don't care when people say something sucks. i guess negative reviews were more useful pre-myspace/music downloading for the reason Fridge said.


What we would like to review, not only reviewing music we have a favourable impression of. It wasn't so long ago that people were complaining about all the scores being high, but now Ross is gone that seems to be less of a problem.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 1:23 am 
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Well Slipknot are qaulity. Some shit songs, some good ones. The Heretic Anthem is a top notch tune.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:09 am 
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noodles wrote:
nah the only sacrifice someone needs to make to appreciate music is the energy it takes to focus on it

If the day ever comes--and I tend to think it will--where downloading music becomes impossible, you'll understand. Not trying to pull the age card again, but most of you here have grown up in a very different era of music. It's just impossible for you to understand my point without having any sort of point of reference (i.e. being there).

Again, not saying you can't appreciate music at all, I simply do not believe one can truly appreciate something without having to sacrifice. If you had to wait six months from announcement to release before hearing an album, and then having to fork over your hard-earned money, often having to choose between one album or another, then you'd understand.

But you guys don't have to. Shit, I don't have to! If I want an album, it's just a few impersonal clicks away. Then I've got a handful of MP3s sitting in a teeny-tiny folder on my PC. Exciting! And because of this, I know for a fact that there is a distinct difference between downloading an album and buying one, touching it, reading the lyrics and liner notes, checking out the artwork. There is no two ways about it.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:21 am 
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noodles wrote:
Goat wrote:
We'll review what we like, giving our personal viewpoints,


yeah! you should stick to reviewing what you like! my reasoning behind negative reviews being pointless is, even with people who have very similar taste to me, there's still a ton of stuff they dislike that i like. so i really don't care when people say something sucks. i guess negative reviews were more useful pre-myspace/music downloading for the reason Fridge said.

I don't think anyone should necessarily review albums they like. That will make it much harder to separate objectivity from fanboy bullshit.

My opinion is simple: an objective negative review is also positive. A reviewer should be able to write a review that equally--and this is the important part--neutrally opines on the aspects of the material, whether it's music, movies, literature, whatever. This Dope review, for instance, should appeal to both Dead Machine's and Adveser's tastes.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:28 am 
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Goat wrote:
What we would like to review, not only reviewing music we have a favourable impression of. It wasn't so long ago that people were complaining about all the scores being high, but now Ross is gone that seems to be less of a problem.

What happened to Ross? Did he get hurt moshing in his wheelchair again? :ph34r:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:06 am 
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Satan's Anus wrote:
Goat wrote:
What we would like to review, not only reviewing music we have a favourable impression of. It wasn't so long ago that people were complaining about all the scores being high, but now Ross is gone that seems to be less of a problem.

What happened to Ross? Did he get hurt moshing in his wheelchair again? :ph34r:


He vanished! What are we, a Missing Persons charity?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:47 am 
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Goat wrote:
Satan's Anus wrote:
Goat wrote:
What we would like to review, not only reviewing music we have a favourable impression of. It wasn't so long ago that people were complaining about all the scores being high, but now Ross is gone that seems to be less of a problem.

What happened to Ross? Did he get hurt moshing in his wheelchair again? :ph34r:

He vanished! What are we, a Missing Persons charity?

I hope he died. :lol:


:unsure:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:02 am 
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Satan's Anus wrote:
Goat wrote:
Satan's Anus wrote:
Goat wrote:
What we would like to review, not only reviewing music we have a favourable impression of. It wasn't so long ago that people were complaining about all the scores being high, but now Ross is gone that seems to be less of a problem.

What happened to Ross? Did he get hurt moshing in his wheelchair again? :ph34r:

He vanished! What are we, a Missing Persons charity?

I hope he died. :lol:


:unsure:


I know you guys were deadly enemies and all, but come on now. Not (a) cool (attitude to have about a former member of the site).


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