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These guys have four tracks from this record up on their MySpace page and this shit is pretty fuckin' sweet, no doubt.

Jeff fucking Gruslin.

Will check out.

Reminds me of Arghoslent even if it isn't as upbeat. Well, as upbeat as xenophobic racism can be.

Arghoslent suck.. how can you compare the two with a straight face?!?!?!?!1

Umm you suck. Why don't you like Arghoslent, pushing this off topic?

Isn't Arghoslent a bunch of racist scums?

Yeah but they make some killer heavy/death metal.

Racist scums=no go.
They're not even courageous enough to show their ugly faces on Metal Archives:

I get it. You wouldn't listen to NSBM or anything close to that. How so musically do they suck?

Got it.
I was told there are some good bands like Nokturnal Nortum that have NS tendencies but, being jewish, my disgust for this kind of people keeps me from listening to their music.
I know some people will think it's silly and that it doesn't matter if you download the music for free but, first, I don't download music and, second, I think there are things that matter and not indulging yourself in musics which you know go against your deepest convictions is one of them.

Yeah... I'm not really "yay for racism" either but I can recognize when a band is doing interesting stuff musically, even if I loathe their ideas. Not only hating racism, but add hating misogyny, reckless drug use and senseless violence, one becomes quite able to tolerate music despite the message being portrayed. Even Christians have to recognize how awesome the band Atheist is, ya know?

Except, most of the bands using the above themes in their lyrical content are not serious about it which makes all the difference.

And most of the 'racist' E. European black metal bands are just proud of their heritage. But yes, Nokturnal Mortum look like an exception to that rule.

Never seen the point of Arrghoslernt. Dull as ditchwater.

Not wanting to start another argument (there are no words to express how sick I am- I am sure we all are- of this subject) but I would just like to point out in my experience the whole heritage/pride thing is not-so-subtle code, a lot of the time. There's only so many times you can hear Nick Griffin saying "we're not racist, we're just proud of our heritage" before you start to see through it. I would be absolutely amazed if it was different in Eastern Europe. Judging by the Supernal newsletter it isn't.

Now, I don't want to derail the thread... maybe I could just express this thought and if anyone wants to respond open a thread in general music or something.

But, this:



...kind of argument bothers me a bit. Not in an "it gives me sleepless nights" way, but in a hmmm I don't agree kind of way. It seems to me to be the nadir of post-modern commodity fetishism. I.e. so long as this thing gives my ears aesthetic pleasure on a subjective level, any actual substantive message or idea behind it is irrelevant.

And conversely, I would ask people who subscribe to this how they react to music that has a political/social message that DOES resonate with them? If you are an enormous racist, can you really appreciate, say Napalm Death or the Dead Kennedys or something on the same level as someone who is on the same page ideologically as those bands? If you are a Nazi punk, can you listen and enjoy a song called "Nazi punks fuck off" on a purely aesthetic level?

I suppose you can.... IF you abandon any notion of deeper meaning in music (or expression) whatsoever and treat it purely as substanceless noise which may or may not sound nice.

Surely, this is something I cannot do. Not that I care so much about the lyrics but, since I buy the stuff I listen to, I don't want to give people whose ideology I condemn any money. I know some people just don't care and listen to music because its musical aesthetics agrees with them, I'm alright with that kind of reasoning though I can not ever do it myself.
I'm what you'd call a lefty libertarian, and an active one at this, coming from a country which has seen a dramatic rise in the extreme-right movement these past few years therefore I'm concerned with the trivialization of racist and fascist ideas is it in music, books, movies, newspapers or anywhere else. I think letting hateful concepts pass as something not really worth caring about is the first step towards a "great fall" I don't want to see happening...

I can see your point, rio, but I can find something to annoy in pretty much any politically-oriented metal band, and only listening to things I fully agree with would reduce my intake to very little. So there's always an element of 'I'll pretend I didn't hear that' to it, which you just get used to. Outright hatefulness in music does make me uncomfortable, but the general 'gloria Ookraina!' stuff is, like Empbladom said, more OTT nationalism as it is 'kill the darkies!' Now, I think nationalism is silly, but it doesn't make me uncomfortable enough to not enjoy the music.

Funny sort of libertarian you are, Wolfie. Free speech uber alles! Mocking modern fascism is far more effective than treating it as some dreadful dark power.