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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:39 pm 
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zadsterboombox wrote:
Interesting topic. Shame the 14 year olds had to spoil it by talking about their cocks. Yes, aren't they cool? You'll get over them in a few years, boys (if they haven't been skinned by your ceaseless maturbating).


easy zad, pete and i were just having an insult war for old time sakes.
Sooo, relax a bit before you get a heart attack, oldie :roll:


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:41 pm 
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Fingon wrote:
zadsterboombox wrote:
Interesting topic. Shame the 14 year olds had to spoil it by talking about their cocks. Yes, aren't they cool? You'll get over them in a few years, boys (if they haven't been skinned by your ceaseless maturbating).


easy zad, pete and i were just having an insult war for old time sakes.
Sooo, relax a bit before you get a heart attack, oldie :roll:


Young people nowdays, I don't know. Why can't you show a bit of respect for those older and wiser than you? When I was your age, I wasn't masturbating like a monkey, I had to go out hunting for the family. I killed a cow with my bare hands when I was 11 years old!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:11 pm 
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zadsterboombox wrote:
Fingon wrote:
zadsterboombox wrote:
Interesting topic. Shame the 14 year olds had to spoil it by talking about their cocks. Yes, aren't they cool? You'll get over them in a few years, boys (if they haven't been skinned by your ceaseless maturbating).


easy zad, pete and i were just having an insult war for old time sakes.
Sooo, relax a bit before you get a heart attack, oldie :roll:


Young people nowdays, I don't know. Why can't you show a bit of respect for those older and wiser than you? When I was your age, I wasn't masturbating like a monkey, I had to go out hunting for the family. I killed a cow with my bare hands when I was 11 years old!


yeah right! but i work on a farm so i on the other hand helped with birth of cows. top that! :wink:


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:13 pm 
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Fingon wrote:
zadsterboombox wrote:
Fingon wrote:
zadsterboombox wrote:
Interesting topic. Shame the 14 year olds had to spoil it by talking about their cocks. Yes, aren't they cool? You'll get over them in a few years, boys (if they haven't been skinned by your ceaseless maturbating).


easy zad, pete and i were just having an insult war for old time sakes.
Sooo, relax a bit before you get a heart attack, oldie :roll:


Young people nowdays, I don't know. Why can't you show a bit of respect for those older and wiser than you? When I was your age, I wasn't masturbating like a monkey, I had to go out hunting for the family. I killed a cow with my bare hands when I was 11 years old!


yeah right! but i work on a farm so i on the other hand helped with birth of cows. top that! :wink:


I lived on a farm when I was 5 years old! Driving tractors ist krieg!!!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 10:43 am 
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kyuss wrote:
Triggers off course procuce midi ( no data as it is midi - sound on the fly )...And no you are not hearing drum machine , just an distorted drums.


No. Triggers produce MIDI control data, not sound (there is no such thing as MIDI sound). The MIDI data is then sent to a drum module which produces the sound. So you are not hearing distorted drums, you are hearing a drum machine triggered by the drummer.

When you hit the drum, the signal from the trigger is sent to a MIDI interface, which converts the trigger signal into a MIDI signal. The MIDI signal then triggers a sound in the drum sound module (basically a drum machine without a sequencer).

kyuss wrote:
Drummer still plays his drums and if he is sloppy the drums will sound sloppy as well. I was mainly reffering to live playing...in studio its not that easy to correct sloppiness manualy as you would spend many hours/days to do it because every drum pad has one single track containing hundreds of hits. In Cubase you have drum editor where you can correct timing, but in studio you have only a meat bag looney toon playing the drums.


You can't correct the timing live, but in the studio you can. Most studios today use a computer-based system (with Cubase or similar software), so quantizing the MIDI track requires only a couple of mouse clicks.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:21 pm 
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Jürgen wrote:
kyuss wrote:
Triggers off course procuce midi ( no data as it is midi - sound on the fly )...And no you are not hearing drum machine , just an distorted drums.


No. Triggers produce MIDI control data, not sound (there is no such thing as MIDI sound). The MIDI data is then sent to a drum module which produces the sound. So you are not hearing distorted drums, you are hearing a drum machine triggered by the drummer.

When you hit the drum, the signal from the trigger is sent to a MIDI interface, which converts the trigger signal into a MIDI signal. The MIDI signal then triggers a sound in the drum sound module (basically a drum machine without a sequencer).

kyuss wrote:
Drummer still plays his drums and if he is sloppy the drums will sound sloppy as well. I was mainly reffering to live playing...in studio its not that easy to correct sloppiness manualy as you would spend many hours/days to do it because every drum pad has one single track containing hundreds of hits. In Cubase you have drum editor where you can correct timing, but in studio you have only a meat bag looney toon playing the drums.


You can't correct the timing live, but in the studio you can. Most studios today use a computer-based system (with Cubase or similar software), so quantizing the MIDI track requires only a couple of mouse clicks.



Ok ,you described it even more to the core but still saying the same thing - drummer -> pads -> triggers -> module -> sound that is recorded into audio tracks.

In studio recording software be it Pro Tools, Cubase or what ever
you can record midi input into audio track. If you want to use drum machine there is option to quantize the drum patterns before recording. If it is recorded you wont quantize anything. And thats the problem with live drummer as he is the drum editor in this case using only his skills. Yes, you can edit audio track but it can be very difficult if there is many of them and it coud take very long time to do so, the thing is...it wouldnt be very cheap option to choose. Easier is to let the drummer play it againg and again.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:24 pm 
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kyuss wrote:
Ok ,you described it even more to the core but still saying the same thing - drummer -> pads -> triggers -> module -> sound that is recorded into audio tracks.


Exactly. But the actual drums aren't recorded into the audio track, the trigger signal isn't recorded into the audio track, the drum sounds from the sound module (controlled by the triggers) are.

The sound module is an electronic sound source that produces drum sounds. In essence, a drum machine without a sequencer.

So when you are hearing triggered drums, you are hearing a drum machine controlled (triggered) by the drummer. Not effected drums.



kyuss wrote:
In studio recording software be it Pro Tools, Cubase or what ever
you can record midi input into audio track.


No, you can not.

MIDI signal doesn't carry information about the actual sound, only information about what you play. MIDI is used to control electronic sound sources (such as synths, samplers and drum machines), not to produce sound by itself. MIDI tells the sound source what to play, and the sound source plays it.

There is no such thing as a MIDI audio signal, MIDI sound or whatever. This is a common misconception, though.


A good explanation of MIDI from cakewalk.com:

MIDI is a set of commands or instructions that different hardware devices and software programs use to communicate to each other. These MIDI commands are pretty much useless by themselves. They need to work with other devices to get the end result you're looking for. When you press a key on a keyboard, that command is sent to the internal synthesizer patch you selected, and /or to the port on the back of the keyboard that says "MIDI Out". That command by itself makes no sound. Along with other information it's just the instruction that says, "play this note".

There is no sound contained in the MIDI information itself, so you will always need some kind of device to play the MIDI commands back, so you can hear them. Some examples of these MIDI devices used to playback the MIDI commands would be a keyboard's synthesizer, a sound card with a built in synthesizer, a stand alone MIDI module, and even a drum machine. Basically, if it has a MIDI input port, it can probably generate some kind of sound. But remember, every device you playback on may have different sounds, so your file may not always sound exactly the same when you play it on different devices. To put it simply, what you play is recorded, but what you hear is not.




kyuss wrote:
If you want to use drum machine there is option to quantize the drum patterns before recording. If it is recorded you wont quantize anything.


This is correct. Quantizing an audio track is difficult.
If a drummer triggers a sound module and the sound module is recorded into an audio track, post-editing is not a sensible option.
This would also be the case if you were to record the sound of the actual drums with a microphone.


In most instances where triggers are used, however, the MIDI signal from the triggers itself is also recorded into a MIDI track, so if you want to edit the timing of the drums and/or change drum sounds later it can be done easily, by just running the MIDI drum track from the computer into a drum sound module and recording an audio drum track from that.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:25 pm 
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Jürgen wrote:
No, you can not.

MIDI signal doesn't carry information about the actual sound, only information about what you play. MIDI is used to control electronic sound sources (such as synths, samplers and drum machines), not to produce sound by itself. MIDI tells the sound source what to play, and the sound source plays it.

There is no such thing as a MIDI audio signal, MIDI sound or whatever. This is a common misconception, though.



Hehe, how is this different from what i wrote ? From instrument to source via midi (sound on the fly as i wrote...but not midi sound but instruments one.) Maybe im just using poorly builded sentences ?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 10:20 am 
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kyuss wrote:
Hehe, how is this different from what i wrote ? From instrument to source via midi (sound on the fly as i wrote...but not midi sound but instruments one.) Maybe im just using poorly builded sentences ?


You claimed that triggering means effecting (distorting) the sound of the actual drum.


Just to get it straight:

When you hit the drum, the sound of the actual drum being hit doesn't go anywhere. It does not get recorded. It just causes the trigger to send a MIDI control signal to the sound module, telling the sound module to play a drum sound.
What comes out is not the sound of the drum that you hit (distorted or otherwise), just an artificial (synthesized or sampled) drum sound triggered by you hitting the drum.
Thus, the name trigger.

When using triggers, you are essentially playing a drum machine on the fly, in real-time, using your actual drum kit to control it. Whatever you play on your drum kit gets played by the drum machine.
The drum kit is not recorded, the drum machine is (okay, some drummers use a combination of triggered and miked drums, but that's beside the point). This is why the volume of triggered drums is the same for each hit.


Okay then, now everyone pretty much knows everything about drum triggers. :D


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