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| Modern production and thrash https://metalreviews.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=19249 |
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| Author: | stevelovesmoonspell [ Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Modern production and thrash |
Though I had made a thread about production on albums some time ago, modern production on thrash came to my mind after listening to Overkill's Ironbound and Death Angel's latest album. When we reminisce on older thrash classics whether it be Kill em all, Pleasure to Kill, or Spectrum or death we recall the production being barebones and dry yet adding some degree of chaos to the music. With modern production increasing audibility in varying levels, do you think it subtracts some of the brutality, atmosphere, and strength of the music? Or with albums such as the latest Heathen and Overkill benefiting from a good studio, do you think it's all in the mix? |
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| Author: | Adveser [ Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
It is all in the mix. No one is going to go to the hassle of recording all that stuff unless it is with very good mics that cover 20-20Khz, at least. Different mics do have different qualities and limitations, but after that, you can make a recording sound like the most glossy pop or the most dry dull 50's recording if you want. It is all in the mixing. That isn't to say the producer isn't going to manipulate the sound to death before it gets to the mixing engineer. In fact there is a ton of "pre-mixing" type stuff if there are two people doing the jobs. But mostly, they want to make sure something that sounds close to the vision in their heads is prepared so that the mix comes together right. That is why those rough demos are made, to see how the instrument's sound will react to being mixed and try to come up with something that is in the ballpark. What everyone here at least refers to as "production" generally means "mastering." The mastering engineer has the job of inserting a dither (noise) into the recording and deciding which frequencies need to go in order to facilitate that. They usually use very high frequencies for dithering noise, which means it's hard for audio to have anything dynamic going on up there without being masked. Most of us can't hear anything over about 17Khz anyway, so again, another thing that's no big deal. I would love to see albums where a cymbal crash is hitting over 20Khz, but there would be a lot of harshness in that signal. More high's usually means more harsh because there is less room for dithering. You could record in 16 bits, but it would be noisier than the dithering noise by a long shot and it isn't any more accurate. It is technically a "truer" recording, but will sound much worse. One day when we are listening to some form of 24-bit 96Khz FLAC, these issues are going to be irrelevant. You could have a sound that gets up to 30Khz and it will wouldn't get close to interfering with the anything. It is pretty simple as far as an album's sound. The less high's the more naturally colored the tone will be. The more highs and less lows the more metallic it will sound. That times 48 tracks should answer the question. You smooth out the highs by them rolling off. Dynamics are another issue altogether. They are adding more and allowing the instruments to get in each others' way more like what would occur on an analogue tape because of it's limitations and coloration. This gives newer albums that classic feel. |
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| Author: | Skiggath [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I actually prefer it. While that early stuff all easily amount to classics, I very much enjoy clean and cut production in Thrash. Ironbound was a PERFECT example. |
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| Author: | Kathaarian [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I think both have their qualities. I don't mind better production in thrash, or any other genre but sometimes the older rawer albums sound much better to my ears. |
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| Author: | Adveser [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Kathaarian wrote: I think both have their qualities. I don't mind better production in thrash, or any other genre but sometimes the older rawer albums sound much better to my ears.
Yeah. Sometimes I do too. I like the original recording of Destruction's "Curse The Gods" much more than the re-recording. |
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| Author: | Thy Serpent [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:51 am ] |
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Kathaarian wrote: I think both have their qualities. I don't mind better production in thrash, or any other genre but sometimes the older rawer albums sound much better to my ears.
Same here. |
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| Author: | huskerc7 [ Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:20 pm ] |
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Tired of the clicky bass drums to be honest. Transilvanian Hunger has the best production of any metal album. |
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| Author: | Holy_Terror [ Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I find that the crystal clear production tends to sterilize the music and undermine any character the music once had. I am not a fan. Late 80's production is my cup of tea. Of course minds will differ, but for some reason the atmosphere created by modern production is lacking. |
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| Author: | stevelovesmoonspell [ Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
huskerc7 wrote: Tired of the clicky bass drums to be honest. Transilvanian Hunger has the best production of any metal album.
I would reckon thats more of a problem in dm, but I guess since both styles of metal use the same sort of drum kits, probably not. |
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| Author: | TheMetalWarrior316 [ Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I like both sounds. But I don't want, that a 2011 record sounds like 1985. I mean, I don't think that the early thrash bands of the 80s WANTED that sound, but it was just the budget and the technology of that time. When the budget got bigger and the technology got better, every thrash band tried to get a better sound. And why not? It's not black metal and the sound has IMO not that "atmospheric" element in thrash. |
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| Author: | huskerc7 [ Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:36 pm ] |
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Nah I'm really tired of that really overproduced sound in metal. It's cool when you're a little kid and have only really been listening to music for like a year to hear some really fast clicky double bass but then it just gets old. Darkthrone- the claws of time is the best song ever |
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| Author: | The Evil Dead [ Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:48 am ] |
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I think it kills a lot of the older bands. Some of it just sounds way too clean. Like for instance I really enjoyed United Abominations by Megadeth, it sounded a bit more gritty... But the next album was just too clean for me to really get behind it. |
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| Author: | TheMetalWarrior316 [ Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:15 pm ] |
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But Endgame is a much better album than United Abominations. It's very heavy and also faster. And I think it is not good, when someone judges an album because of the production and not the quality of the songs. |
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