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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:32 am 
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stub wrote:
I'm 33, and i began discovering metal during the nineties with cool bands like Guns'n'Roses, Queen, Aerosmith,Megadeth,Iron maiden,Black Sabbath.

I've never listened to shitty bands like Nirvana,Korn,Slipknot,Machine Head and Pantera.


Pantera should never be in the same sentence as the other bands you mentioned :mad:


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:56 am 
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Thrashtildeth wrote:
traptunderice wrote:
Danzig was never nu metal.


This.


I guess you had to be there. Danzig 6 and to a lesser extent, 7, were in the context of their release dates, very much the same sort of thing that nu-metal/alt. metal bands were doing. It may not seem like it now, but Danzig was hanging around Tommy Victor an awful lot who would bring his alt. metal/thrash sound to the band a few years after this. The 00's were nothing like the late eighties and early nineties, that's for damn sure. I think some of you guys are framing the term nu-metal not to include major label bands like Sepultura and Prong who clearly were authentic metal bands releasing Nu-Metal sounding records in an era when that is what people were buying and going to see live.

It's like trying to argue that Yes, Kansas and Rush in the mid-eighties were not full blown pop/rock bands when that's exactly what they were up to. They released the exact same thing as the likes of Rod Stewart were putting out. The fact they would later abandon the mainstream market in favor of their more loyal fanbases doesn't make "power windows" a progressive rock record while it sounds like The Human League.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:21 pm 
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Alt metal =/= nu metal. Danzig definitely jumped the shark, but he wasn't doing nu metal a la Korn, Limp Bizkit, POD.

On a side note, did Deftones get washed clean of the nu metal tag?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:51 pm 
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Tehom wrote:
Static X suck horribly, the entire genre was an abortion as soon as ex metalheads or mallcore kids started downtuning to drop z after hearing the first Korn LP and Pantera's latest trailerpark garbage. It was a terrible style of rock music and thank god its dead, next I'm going to see an ICP thread.

You won't see a ICP thread from me...


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:53 pm 
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traptunderice wrote:
Alt metal =/= nu metal. Danzig definitely jumped the shark, but he wasn't doing nu metal a la Korn, Limp Bizkit, POD.

On a side note, did Deftones get washed clean of the nu metal tag?

Deftones is a band I never got into. But I'm pretty sure they were considered nu metal or alternative metal at some point.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:31 pm 
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Deftones got popular around the same time as the other Nu Metal bands but I would never classify them under that genre. Same with SOAD.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:36 pm 
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Metastable To Chaos wrote:
Deftones got popular around the same time as the other Nu Metal bands but I would never classify them under that genre. Same with SOAD.

I'd say SOAD are nu metal. They were one of the better bands of that genre though.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:52 am 
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Ist Krieg
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snake wrote:
Metastable To Chaos wrote:
Deftones got popular around the same time as the other Nu Metal bands but I would never classify them under that genre. Same with SOAD.

I'd say SOAD are nu metal. They were one of the better bands of that genre though.
The question: was Serj's frantic vocals comparable to rapping?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:01 am 
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traptunderice wrote:
snake wrote:
Metastable To Chaos wrote:
Deftones got popular around the same time as the other Nu Metal bands but I would never classify them under that genre. Same with SOAD.

I'd say SOAD are nu metal. They were one of the better bands of that genre though.
The question: was Serj's frantic vocals comparable to rapping?

i wouldnt say they are comparable to rapping. but does vocals that are comparable to rapping a definition of nu metal?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:16 am 
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Einherjar

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snake wrote:
traptunderice wrote:
snake wrote:
Metastable To Chaos wrote:
Deftones got popular around the same time as the other Nu Metal bands but I would never classify them under that genre. Same with SOAD.

I'd say SOAD are nu metal. They were one of the better bands of that genre though.
The question: was Serj's frantic vocals comparable to rapping?

i wouldnt say they are comparable to rapping. but does vocals that are comparable to rapping a definition of nu metal?


That's pretty much my point. Rap is not a prerequisite for nu-metal.

By the time nu-metal was defined as a genre it had grown to include alt. metal too. I see what you guys are saying though, Alt. Metal is the parent genre and anyone coming close to that sound was saddled with a producer that got the most exploitation out of the popular subgenre.

I think some of you guys are trying to define mainstream music by sound and not marketing and it's been all marketing since the early 90's at least when they figured out they could take anybody and pigeon hole them into a genre with the right producer and marketing strategy.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:20 am 
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What the fuck is alternative metal


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:28 am 
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Tehom wrote:
What the fuck is alternative metal


even though I came to my own conclusions and opinions independently, I think the RYM guide to genres pretty much gets it right and considering how many metalheads hang out there and that it is user-controlled content, it's pretty much as accurate as it's gonna get without media/personal bias and especially marketing determining things:

Quote:
Alternative Metal edit
Alternative Metal is a loosely defined sub-genre of Metal that began in the late 1980s and reached its peak in the early 90s. It is characterized by mixing Metal (most notably heavy riffs) with other styles such as Hip Hop (Rage Against the Machine), Funk (Primus), Grunge (Soundgarden), and other genres not traditionally associated with Metal.

By the mid 1990s Alternative Metal's sound became more standardized, thus resulting in what is now called Nu Metal, however, some bands are still classified as Alternative Metal today (such as System of a Down). This is typically due to them being closer in sound to Alternative Rock or their lack of the Hip Hop influences associated with Nu Metal.

Funk Metal edit
Funk metal is a sub-genre of alternative metal that began in the late 1980s. It is characterized by a mix of heavy metal guitar riffs, funk style bass, and sometimes hip-hop style rhymes.

Nu Metal edit
Nu Metal is a form of Alternative Metal that began around the mid-1990s. Musically, there is a large emphasis placed on rhythm. The guitar is often used almost exclusively as a rhythm instrument, relying more on techniques like syncopation, palm muting, drop-D tuning and power chords than the more intricate lead guitar work of traditional Metal styles. The rhythm section frequently displays elements of Funk, Hip Hop, and Metal, and often eschews techniques more prevalent in extreme Metal such as double bass drumming in favour of a more groove-oriented sound. Some bands also employ a DJ on turntables as part of their lineup to further emphasize these elements.

Lyrically, Nu Metal often deals with themes of angst and hostility and the vocals are usually aggressive, though not to the point where the lyrics become indiscernible. Stylistically, the vocals can be in the form of rapping, singing, or a shouting/screaming style similar to Hardcore Punk or extreme Metal. Many bands combine several of these styles and alternate between them within songs.

Production also plays a part in the Nu Metal sound, often favouring a "clean" and polished production style with liberal use of distortion and post-processing effects to both music and vocals to further enhance the atmosphere of the music. Ross Robinson is a notable producer in the genre and had a hand in the production of many staple Nu Metal releases by artists like Korn, Deftones, Slipknot and Limp Bizkit.

Rap Metal edit
Rap Metal is a form of Alternative Metal that features a rapper as a vocalist. Rap metal instrumentation is typically formed around metal riffs and a live drum kit played in a groove-oriented fashion at a mid-tempo pace; much less emphasis on staccato attacks and fast tempos that are common in other metal genres. The genre shares many similarities with Rap Rock, but generally the music is heavier and more aggressive. Rap Metal was influential in the creation of the Nu Metal genre, but sonically they are distinguishable since Nu Metal does not necessarily always have rap vocals. Some key innovators include Rage Against the Machine and Body Count.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:38 pm 
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Metal King
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That cleared some questions I had up.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:17 pm 
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Tehom wrote:
What the fuck is alternative metal


I just always called it hard alternative. I could never really figure out any real metal tags with any of the bands that were called this.
Jane's Addiction, for example.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:16 pm 
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ok heres a question. how would you guys classify alice in chains?

they get lumped in with grunge but their songs are way more complex than other grunge bands. the subject matter in their songs i guess fit the grunge moniker but if they came out today would they be goth rock? if you listen to bands with the goth tag (paradise lost, sentenced) it would kinda fit. ive heard people call them alternative as well. the alternative tag maybe is for bands that dont really fit a particular genre? this same thing goes for soundgarden. i never felt that grunge fit either of these bands.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:19 pm 
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btw when i think alternative rock i think of bands from the mid nineties when it was popular. bands like:toad the wet sprocket, janes addiction, the toadies, sponge, the meat puppets, gin blossoms, soul asylum, etc etc etc. would that be correct?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:26 pm 
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Ist Krieg
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Adveser wrote:
I think some of you guys are trying to define mainstream music by sound and not marketing
Yeah, let the capitalist profit motive define music rather than aesthetic characteristics! That makes a whole lot of fucking sense. Asking Alexandria and Avenged Sevenfold are so much better than Cattle Decapitation or Devin Townsend. They are on the radio and shit so they must be better. Shut the fuck up, Addy.

And alt metal is that weird moment wherein how do you classify the Rollins Band... And alt rock is different than alt metal. One is doing rock in the vein Zeppelin while the other is doing metal in the vein of Sabbath. And ultimately that distinction rests on the sound of the guitar.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:11 pm 
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snake wrote:
ok heres a question. how would you guys classify alice in chains?

they get lumped in with grunge but their songs are way more complex than other grunge bands. the subject matter in their songs i guess fit the grunge moniker but if they came out today would they be goth rock? if you listen to bands with the goth tag (paradise lost, sentenced) it would kinda fit. ive heard people call them alternative as well. the alternative tag maybe is for bands that dont really fit a particular genre? this same thing goes for soundgarden. i never felt that grunge fit either of these bands.


That is my point. In 1991, they were a Hard Rock act not unlike Guns N Roses. Then after that the PR department over at Columbia decided everything needed to bare a resemblance to Nirvana, they were saddled with a producer that makes it happen.

Trapt is just putting the cart before the horse. It isn't that they market the record after it's made and try to wedge stuff into a genre after it is done, they start marketing it when the choice of producer is made and will change the sound into something else so that it fits where the money is being spent at the current time.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:12 am 
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Adveser wrote:
snake wrote:
ok heres a question. how would you guys classify alice in chains?

they get lumped in with grunge but their songs are way more complex than other grunge bands. the subject matter in their songs i guess fit the grunge moniker but if they came out today would they be goth rock? if you listen to bands with the goth tag (paradise lost, sentenced) it would kinda fit. ive heard people call them alternative as well. the alternative tag maybe is for bands that dont really fit a particular genre? this same thing goes for soundgarden. i never felt that grunge fit either of these bands.


That is my point. In 1991, they were a Hard Rock act not unlike Guns N Roses. Then after that the PR department over at Columbia decided everything needed to bare a resemblance to Nirvana, they were saddled with a producer that makes it happen.

Trapt is just putting the cart before the horse. It isn't that they market the record after it's made and try to wedge stuff into a genre after it is done, they start marketing it when the choice of producer is made and will change the sound into something else so that it fits where the money is being spent at the current time.

facelift came out in 90'. dirt came out in 92'. dirt got heavier and darker because of addiction not because of a producer. ive watched every piece of info i could find on aic throughout my life. ive seen every interview with any member of aic on youtube and anywhere else and ive never heard any one of them say they got a darker sound because of a producer or that their label infuenced any of their music. i mean think about the ep's that came out in between full lengths. sap and jar of flies. there is some weird shit on those cd's along with some of their best songs. when the self titled came out that is arguably the darkest and heaviest out of all their work. jerry cantrell says himself that they never thought of themselves as grunge. they always thought they were closer to metal than anything else. i under stand what adveser is saying i just dont think that was done with alice in chains. i think the fact that they were from seattle had everything to do with it. soundgarden as well. soundgarden sounds nothing like grunge to my ears. idk


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:36 am 
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Einherjar

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Come on now, Music Bank clearly shows that all the songs that got cut from the album dirt were all the hard rock songs that did make it on the facelift album. The dark and brooding mood 100% of the time was not the band that got started in the late 80's and released facelift. Facelift was fun and made fun of the rock n roll lifestyle. Once rock was no fun anymore thanks to Nirvana's pissy party, they got serious.

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