Metal Reviews

exactly. to me a lot of the modern views on the Bible seem to be trying to make it fit in with modern views of the world in any way possible, rather than being a genuine interpretation. i also agree that the Bible and history of Christianity should be studied because it's very interesting and very important to culture and such

What annoys me is that Christianity today is not what Jesus would have wanted it. Read the NT; he's all about loving your fellow man. It was Constantine and co that made it the state religion, and by doing so removed the nonviolence ethos in favour of using it to control people. All these Black Metal bands have got the wrong person to hate!

As for Christianity in Presidents, Eisenhower was a great President yet he was the one that introduced 'In God We Trust'... no Political leader is ever perfect, but some are better than others. McCain and Palin seem the greater evil to me, especially considering that Palin being leader of the free world is a real possibility if McCain drops dead as the old boy looks like he will. Obama and Biden are hardly my first choice to lead a country (Chomsky/Monbiot! ) but for the moment I think they'll do a damaged country ok. And higher taxes for the richer people, Valefor, remember my chart a few pages back. Nice to see you bullying someone else for a change!

A few weeks ago, I was talking with a friend of mine (who's an Agnostic), and he brought up an interesting point that I completely agree with. Christians, today, typically fall into two categories. You have the fundamentally-deistic Christians who "accept God and Jesus" but don't really give their faith any real meaning or significance in their lives, and you have the paranoid/overly-defensive Christians who worry about going to Hell if they even breathe the wrong way. While the number of truly faithful and dedicated Christians (ie. the hidden "third category") is, unfortunately, much smaller. IMO, if you had more Christians in the third category and fewer in the first/second categories, you'd probably have a lot less hypocrisy and whacked-out fundamentalism.

Yes, indeed. When the central tenet of Christianity is 'love thy neighbour as thyself', who really are the true Christians nowadays? Not the majority of those that call themselves that, I'd say.

But the Old Testament itself is full of violent laws and decrees, death penalties, etc. Even the Ten Commandments only apply to Jewish people dealing with other Jewish people (so for example "thou shalt not kill" really means "thou shalt not kill other jews". And while the penalty for violating any one of the Ten Commandments is death, killing heathens brings to canonization, as expressed, if not explicitly, by the numerous accounts of God telling his chosen people to utterly annihilate various cities throughout the Bible.
In the story of Sodom and Gomorrah we are given as epitome of virtue a man who instead of giving up his guest to the sodomites who want to rape him, gives them his virgin daughter without a moments hesitation. When God destroys the city and all its sinful inhabitants, the one virtuous (in this case virtuous means heterosexual) man, the same who gave up his daughter to be gang-raped, is told that he must not look back at the city's destruction. His wife looks behind her shoulder while running away and is immediately turned into a pillar of salt.

There are numerous such examples in the Old Testament, and Moses' laws are barbaric and violent. The New Testament, while definitely having an overall theme of peace, is nevertheless not exempt from proof of the immoral times in which it was written. Jesus himself invokes Moses' laws, and Jesus' views on family values are also sketchy.

Website whith a bunch of interesting bible quotes:
http://www.evilbible.com

Christ, Fridge, at least get your facts right. The man in question (Lot, the nephew of Abraham) was prepared to offer his daughters up to protect a guest, the lesson being that people under your roof are under your protection. Most commentators agree that he didn't actually do so. Of course, later on they got him drunk and got pregnant from him, thinking him the last man alive, so can't argue with your basic point.

I wouldn't trust websites like that. A lot of the interpretations of those Bible quotes completely miss what they're really representing, or completely take them out of context (such as that "Baby Eating" interpretation).

As for God commanding the deaths of animals, etc. in the Old Testament; well, provided it was actually God and not man's ego commanding such things (who knows?), remember that (unlike an Atheist) a Christian doesn't see death as the end. He, instead, sees it as a new beginning. Where you're either with God (ie. in a better place than this life) or you aren't (ie. in a worse place than this life). So seeing as to how God is in charge of death and what happens to us after it, him commanding death is different from a human being commanding it.

Thread split!

It all depends on how you interpret the original Hebrew, really. I'm sure everyone knows the "horns/rays" one.

A suggestion for a rule in this thread: RESPECTFUL discussion. No insults or flaming. There's actually quite a bit of religious diversity here (especially for a metal forum) and religion's a very sensitive/volatile subject, so we should keep it tolerant and respectful.

Of course. Frigidaire and others, take note.

Heh, came here to post much same thing. Mintrude has his eye on the lot of you.

Hebrew's a very difficult language. A lot of scholars still struggle with understanding it. Seeing as to how The Bible had so many translations (including one to English), I don't doubt that there exist some mistranslations in it (one that many find most likely is Jesus cursing a fig tree). And even if you do correctly translate the actual words from Hebrew to a more modern language, you still have to wade through the different meanings and contexts of the Hebrew versions of such words.

I am no fan of the pigs slurping at the trough, but they already pay their share of taxes.
And higher taxes for the top percentiles = lost jobs for the working man; since when do the upper crust take the hit?
I cannot even begin to tell you how many jobs have gone elsewhere because it is just too expensive to do business in california. High taxation, business fees up the yin yang, etc.
No; taxing the rich will produce a backlash against the common working man. More jobs gone overseas, anybody?
Tax breaks for the lowest income brackets make little sense: they already pay barely any taxes at all. This isn't a socialist country, after all.

Don't need no blind belief
Don't need no comic relief
Don't need to see the scars
Don't need Jesus Christ Superstar
Don't need no Sunday Television
Bet your life I don't need religion
Don't need no time for prayer
Don't save no knee-pads for me up there
If your head's alright, ya don't need binoculars to see the light
Ya don't need no miracle vision
Bet ya life you don't need religion
I don't need no Santa Claus
Don't believe in fairies no more
Don't need to go to confession
I'm already trying to fight depression
Don't need no exorcism
Bet ya life I don't need religion

Indeed. Having studied the damn language myself, I can tell you it's a pain.

And Politics thread, V. This is the religion thread, not the 'slag socialism off' thread, or the 'post song lyrics' thread.

I'd also like to point out, for clarity, that just because in immoral act was performed by a Biblical hero doesn't mean the act was approved of. Biblical heroes, like the rest of us, were human and made serious mistakes. And these mistakes almost always had consequences at the end. Immorality is a simple part of history. The people who wrote the Jewish scriptures much of the OT is based on chose not to censor it, nor should they have.

What I find both fascinating and objectable is the role of God in the OT. Take the David/Bathsheba incident, for example. David sins wih her and sends her husband to be killed, and the choice he is given by the prophet (3 days of plague, 3 months of famine or 3 years of war if I remember correctly) is hardly a direct punishment. What did the people who would die, starve or fight have to do with the selfish act of the King? Throughout the OT, God is amazingly childlike, starting plagues when the people ask for food, cursing Moses when he hits the rock instead of talking to it... and this is just according to the plain text! If you get into the Jewish commentators (and I recommend them if you're interested in Bible study seriously and don't mind a little pro-Judaism angle) then a plethora of incidents arise, God holding Mt Sinai over the entire nation of Israelites' heads to threaten them into accepting the 10 commandments is one that I remember offhand.

Keep the topic of the thread in mind yourself.

Those lyrics pretty much sum it up.
Want my own words?
I think religion is the biggest scam ever concieved.
It's a sheep factory. Mind control at it's worst.
Ever wonder why the pope lives like a king while preaching humility? While his followers, or at least a significant portion, live in soul-crushing poverty? Whatkeeps them from rising up?
Could it be their religion has turned them into meek docile cattle, accepting their lot in some hope in the cruel dream of an eternity of milk and honey?
Religion is a global headfuck founded on fear of the afterlife, shame and guilt simply for being human (ironically since we are created in "his" image) keeping the masses in subjection and poverty, while promising a better life after death.
Meanwhile, the proponents of organized religion make a killing.
It requires "blind faith"... and the Church is always in need of money...

Is it any wonder ALL politicians use it as a platform?

Well, Catholicism is one thing. You can't tell me the Dalai Lama lives like Hugh Hefner, however.

True.
Perhaps I should clarify: Western (judeo - christian) religion is a scam.
I don't know enough about Eastern philosophy to comment on it, so I won't.