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 Post subject: The Metal Reviews Debate: Teen Pregnancy
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:11 pm 
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Father is 13, mother is 15. Apparently now they're not sure that he is the father because she puts it about like a hot potato.
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http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... 233878.ece

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BOY dad Alfie Patten yesterday admitted he does not know how much nappies cost — but said: “I think it’s a lot.”
Baby-faced Alfie, who is 13 but looks more like eight, became a father four days ago when his girlfriend Chantelle Steadman gave birth to 7lb 3oz Maisie Roxanne.

He told how he and Chantelle, 15, decided against an abortion after discovering she was pregnant.

The shy lad, whose voice has not yet broken, said: “I thought it would be good to have a baby.

“I didn’t think about how we would afford it. I don’t really get pocket money. My dad sometimes gives me £10.”

Alfie, who is just 4ft tall, added: “When my mum found out, I thought I was going to get in trouble. We wanted to have the baby but were worried how people would react.

“I didn’t know what it would be like to be a dad. I will be good, though, and care for it.”

Alfie's story, broken exclusively by The Sun today has sparked a huge political storm with Tory leader David Cameron saying: "When I saw these pictures this morning, I just thought how worrying that in Britain today children are having children.

"I hope that somehow these children grow up into responsible parents but the truth is parenthood is just not something they should be thinking about right now."

PM Gordon Brown refused to comment directly on the story but said it was important that the Government did all it could to prevent teenage pregnancies.

Alfie’s dad Dennis yesterday told how the lad does not really understand the enormity of his situation — but seemed desperate to be a devoted and responsible father.

He wanted to be the first to hold Maisie after the hospital birth.

And Dennis, 45, said: “He could have shrugged his shoulders and sat at home on his Playstation. But he has been at the hospital every day.”

Maisie was conceived after Chantelle and Alfie — just 12 at the time — had a single night of unprotected sex.

They found out about the baby when Chantelle was 12 weeks pregnant.

But they kept it a secret until six weeks later when Chantelle’s mum Penny, 38, became suspicious about her weight gain and confronted her.

After that Alfie’s family told only those closest to them for fear he would be “demonised” at school.

Chantelle gave birth to Maisie on Monday night after a five-hour labour at Eastbourne Hospital, East Sussex.

Last night she told The Sun: “I’m tired after the birth. I was nervous after going into labour but otherwise I was quite excited.”

Chantelle told how she discovered she was expecting after going to her GP with “really bad” stomach pains. She said: “Me and Alfie went. The doctor asked me whether we had sex. I said yes and he said I should do a pregnancy test. He did the test and said I was pregnant. I started crying and didn’t know what to do.

“He said I should tell my mum but I was too scared.

“We didn’t think we would need help from our parents. You don’t really think about that when you find out you are pregnant. You just think your parents will kill you.”

But Penny figured out what was going on after buying Chantelle a T-shirt which revealed her swelling tum.

Chantelle admitted she and Alfie — who are both being supported by their parents — would be accused of being grossly irresponsible. She said: “We know we made a mistake but I wouldn’t change it now. We will be good loving parents.

“I have started a church course and I am going to do work experience helping other young mums.

“I’ll be a great mum and Alfie will be a great dad.”

Chantelle and Maisie were released from hospital yesterday. They are living with Penny, Chantelle’s jobless dad Steve, 43, and her five brothers in a rented council house in Eastbourne. The family live on benefits. Alfie, who lives on an estate across town with mum Nicola, 43, spends most of his time at the Steadmans’ house.

He is allowed to stay overnight and even has a school uniform there so he can go straight to his classes in the morning.

Alfie’s dad, who is separated from Nicola, believes the lad is scared deep down.

He said: “Everyone is telling him things and it’s going round in his head. It hasn’t really dawned on him. He hasn’t got a clue of what the baby means and can’t explain how he feels. All he knows is mum and dad will help.

“When you mention money his eyes look away. And she is reliant on her mum and dad. It’s crazy. They have no idea what lies ahead.”

Dennis, who works for a vehicle recovery firm, described Alfie as “a typical 13-year-old boy”.

He said: “He loves computer games, boxing and Manchester United.” Dennis, who has fathered nine kids, told how he was “gobsmacked” when he discovered Alfie was to be a dad, too.

He said: “When I spoke to him he started crying. He said it was the first time he’d had sex, that he didn’t know what he was doing and of the complications that could come.

“I will talk to him again and it will be the birds and the bees talk. Some may say it’s too late but he needs to understand so there is not another baby.”

Chantelle’s mum said: “I told her it was lovely to have the baby but I wish it was in different circumstances. We have five children already so it’s a big financial responsibility. But we are a family and will pull together and get through.

“She’s my daughter. I love her and she will want for nothing.”

Last night Michaela Aston, of the anti-abortion Christian charity LIFE, said: “We commend these teenagers for their courage in bringing their child into the world.

“At the same time this is symptomatic of the over-sexualisation of our youngsters and shows the policy of value-free sex education just isn’t working.”

Today Sussex Police and the local council's children services said they have investigated the case and pledged continued support for the young parents.

Britain’s youngest known father is Sean Stewart. He became a dad at 12 when the girl next door, 15-year-old Emma Webster, gave birth in Sharnbrook, Bedford, in 1998. They split six months later.


Question is, what can be done? Should we just sterilise everyone under 18 and leave them to screw their little brains out, or is greater education the answer, or is it a breakout in morals, or...?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:17 pm 
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Kids having kids is a sure way to screw everyone's life.
Let's sterilise!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:25 pm 
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Obviously greater education. It's crap that 13 year olds are having sex, but does anyone seriously doubt that 13 year olds weren't having sex, say, in the 1800s? The only difference is that they left the babies to die, ran away to nunneries or had their family members perform amateur abortions on them.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:32 pm 
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Teen pregnancy is actually declining in the UK... stories like this make it seem like a huge problem but it doesn't mean it's getting worse; in fact it may be getting better.

I'd say forcing people to be sterilised is against my principles, regardless of whether it would solve the problem or not.

On the other hand we are getting much older as a society and maybe all these babies is not a bad thing in the long run... people to look after us when we are all old and demented.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:47 pm 
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I'd be more worried about shit like this.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:55 pm 
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I think it'll be a constant thing... read a thing in The Guardian recently about how teen pregnancies are a mark of pride in some American communities, no doubt fuelled by that Palin daughter bitch.

Zombieboy mentioned that the problem's declining, but as long as we have chav scum like this running around whoring themselves out for the tabloids, there will be kids born to kids. Read further, about the parents of this delightful couple. The boy's father's an out-of-work father of six, the mother's an aged slapper, the girl's mother had no problem with her having a variety of boys over... sex education fails, in my view, where you have cunts for parents.

Charles, why not sterilisation, apart from human rights?

Fridge, random hysterical shit like that might happen, but the real stories are never uncovered. Let's focus on our home countries first before trying to stop another civilisation from marrying off its children too young, eh? Read today that India's courts are about 500 years behind, there are still honour killings... different thread.


Last edited by Goat on Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:00 pm 
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Yeah that was a bit of a derail.

Last month a 13 year old girl in Switzerland gave birth, and the dad's also 13. In this case, however, protection was used, and they just had bad luck. The kid's going to be raised by it's grandmother, and the choice to have the kid was unanimous by all people involved, except the dad, who's pissed.

Honestly I have no problem with that. The kid's going to be fine.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:32 pm 
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Goat wrote:
Zombieboy mentioned that the problem's declining, but as long as we have chav scum like this running around whoring themselves out for the tabloids, there will be kids born to kids. Read further, about the parents of this delightful couple. The boy's father's an out-of-work father of six, the mother's an aged slapper, the girl's mother had no problem with her having a variety of boys over... sex education fails, in my view, where you have cunts for parents.



Classic liberal snobbery, if you don't mind me saying. The father is out of work? Shock horror! So is half the population of the country nowadays. The mother is an "aged slapper"? WTF?! You don't really know anything about these people except what you have read about them in said tabloids, or do you? Ah there we go, the classic Sun readers' explanation of all society's problems. It must be the fact they are "chav scum"!

Quote:
Charles, why not sterilisation, apart from human rights?


"Apart from human rights"? Some "liberal" you are, eh!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:35 pm 
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FrigidSymphony wrote:
Yeah that was a bit of a derail.

Last month a 13 year old girl in Switzerland gave birth, and the dad's also 13. In this case, however, protection was used, and they just had bad luck. The kid's going to be raised by it's grandmother, and the choice to have the kid was unanimous by all people involved, except the dad, who's pissed.

Honestly I have no problem with that. The kid's going to be fine.


I agree with you Frigid. Teenage pregnancy doesn't have to be the disaster it's presented as if there is a strong family structure or even a strong wider community structure capable of creating a safe environment in which the child can be raised without placing too much responsibility on the parents who may be too young to cope. This seems quite natural human behaviour to me.

Of course they could just all be tabloid chav scum slappers :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:47 pm 
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It's just social conditioning that leads us to find it strange when a child is raised by anything other than an adult heterosexual married couple. Of course, recently many of these "conditionings" have worn off, like the marriage bit, and the heterosexual bit. Who's to say it won't be the adult bit next? Maybe kids can rise to the occasion.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:56 pm 
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FrigidSymphony wrote:
Yeah that was a bit of a derail.

Last month a 13 year old girl in Switzerland gave birth, and the dad's also 13. In this case, however, protection was used, and they just had bad luck. The kid's going to be raised by it's grandmother, and the choice to have the kid was unanimous by all people involved, except the dad, who's pissed.

Honestly I have no problem with that. The kid's going to be fine.


So fathers now have no rights?

Charles, in order:

The father being out of work and having nine kids doesn't say much for the good influence that he'll have, does it? The mother being an aged slapper might be my initial reaction, but these aren't cosy, hard-working people for whom a baby is anything other than a ticket to fame. I'm not blaming their problems on their being chav scum, I'm just calling them that. You can't tell me my initial example is a "strong family structure or even a strong wider community structure capable of creating a safe environment in which the child can be raised without placing too much responsibility on the parents who may be too young to cope".

So, under-16s have the right to have children according to you? I never claim to be that much of a liberal.

And Fridge, for goodness' sake. Social conditioning, yes, but whilst I have no problems with gay or unmarried adult couples raising children, you can't say that schoolchildren will be raising the next generation with a straight face.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:15 pm 
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Goat wrote:
FrigidSymphony wrote:
Yeah that was a bit of a derail.

Last month a 13 year old girl in Switzerland gave birth, and the dad's also 13. In this case, however, protection was used, and they just had bad luck. The kid's going to be raised by it's grandmother, and the choice to have the kid was unanimous by all people involved, except the dad, who's pissed.

Honestly I have no problem with that. The kid's going to be fine.


So fathers now have no rights?

Charles, in order:

The father being out of work and having nine kids doesn't say much for the good influence that he'll have, does it? The mother being an aged slapper might be my initial reaction, but these aren't cosy, hard-working people for whom a baby is anything other than a ticket to fame. I'm not blaming their problems on their being chav scum, I'm just calling them that. You can't tell me my initial example is a "strong family structure or even a strong wider community structure capable of creating a safe environment in which the child can be raised without placing too much responsibility on the parents who may be too young to cope".

So, under-16s have the right to have children according to you? I never claim to be that much of a liberal.

And Fridge, for goodness' sake. Social conditioning, yes, but whilst I have no problems with gay or unmarried adult couples raising children, you can't say that schoolchildren will be raising the next generation with a straight face.


1st paragraph:

You don't really know any of this, though, do you? It's entirely speculation. IMO part of the problem is probably the fact that people who do make stupid mistakes and have kids far too young get pretty much thrown on the scrapheap. I also really shouldn't need to remind you that the entire purpose of newspapers such as the Sun is to locate particular stories such as this and blow them out of all proportion, with the implicit intention of an entire stratum of society as unworthy. IMO anyone that adopts such phrases as "chav scum", particularly as a knee jerk about people about whose lives they actually have very little information, is buying straight into that whole scheme.

2nd paragraph:

You realise what you are talking about is forced sterilisation? As far as I was aware until recently when people started floating these ideas, the only person who wasn't against that on principle was pretty much, er, Hitler.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:22 pm 
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rio wrote:

1st paragraph:

You don't really know any of this, though, do you? It's entirely speculation. IMO part of the problem is probably the fact that people who do make stupid mistakes and have kids far too young get pretty much thrown on the scrapheap. I also really shouldn't need to remind you that the entire purpose of newspapers such as the Sun is to locate particular stories such as this and blow them out of all proportion, with the implicit intention of an entire stratum of society as unworthy. IMO anyone that adopts such phrases as "chav scum", particularly as a knee jerk about people about whose lives they actually have very little information, is buying straight into that whole scheme.

2nd paragraph:

You realise what you are talking about is forced sterilisation? As far as I was aware until recently when people started floating these ideas, the only person who wasn't against that on principle was pretty much, er, Hitler.


There are a load of related stories in The Sun, about how all the neighbourhood boys are wanting paternity tests etc, got the guff re the parents from them. And yes, muckraking, but the family sold their story to the paper so they're not blameless. Of course, tabloids are scummy papers at the best of times, but they're not making this story up, probably just the precise details. Eh, white trash, chav scum... I was partly tongue-in-cheek, but seriously... what is the point of paying these people benefits?

Forced sterilisation? Was thinking more along the mandatory birth control route. Should that girl been allowed to have the child, in your opinion? I say no. Is she even capable of making a level-headed choice?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:26 pm 
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Oh, and

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/200 ... age-father


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:38 pm 
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Goat wrote:


OMFG! A teenage slut! :blink: And an ugly one too... :rolleyes:


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:40 pm 
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The dad's 13, if everyone on the mother's side of the family wants to keep it, then no, he doesn't have that right.

And no, I don't think that the next generation of parents will be schoolchildren, I'm just saying that what we find acceptable or not isn't some moral absolute, it's totally relative.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:09 pm 
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FrigidSymphony wrote:
The dad's 13, if everyone on the mother's side of the family wants to keep it, then no, he doesn't have that right.

And no, I don't think that the next generation of parents will be schoolchildren, I'm just saying that what we find acceptable or not isn't some moral absolute, it's totally relative.


Balls. Schoolchildren are not physically, financially or mentally capable of bringing up children. Heck, most adults aren't either.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:15 pm 
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Goat wrote:
FrigidSymphony wrote:
The dad's 13, if everyone on the mother's side of the family wants to keep it, then no, he doesn't have that right.

And no, I don't think that the next generation of parents will be schoolchildren, I'm just saying that what we find acceptable or not isn't some moral absolute, it's totally relative.


Balls. Schoolchildren are not physically, financially or mentally capable of bringing up children. Heck, most adults aren't either.


So, what should we do?
We know the planet's already overpopulated... Should mankind create a procreation license based on the ability to financially and morally support children to be?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:18 pm 
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Lucifer's Son wrote:
Goat wrote:
FrigidSymphony wrote:
The dad's 13, if everyone on the mother's side of the family wants to keep it, then no, he doesn't have that right.

And no, I don't think that the next generation of parents will be schoolchildren, I'm just saying that what we find acceptable or not isn't some moral absolute, it's totally relative.


Balls. Schoolchildren are not physically, financially or mentally capable of bringing up children. Heck, most adults aren't either.


So, what should we do?
We know the planet's already overpopulated... Should mankind create a procreation license based on the ability to financially and morally support children to be?


Stopping under 18s from reproducing would be a good start. I hate to sound like a Death Metal song, but mandatory abortion for under 16s at the least?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:24 pm 
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Goat wrote:
Lucifer's Son wrote:
Goat wrote:
FrigidSymphony wrote:
The dad's 13, if everyone on the mother's side of the family wants to keep it, then no, he doesn't have that right.

And no, I don't think that the next generation of parents will be schoolchildren, I'm just saying that what we find acceptable or not isn't some moral absolute, it's totally relative.


Balls. Schoolchildren are not physically, financially or mentally capable of bringing up children. Heck, most adults aren't either.


So, what should we do?
We know the planet's already overpopulated... Should mankind create a procreation license based on the ability to financially and morally support children to be?


Stopping under 18s from reproducing would be a good start. I hate to sound like a Death Metal song, but mandatory abortion for under 16s at the least?


Yeah I'd support that.

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