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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:58 am 
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Karmakosmonaut wrote:
To blow one's own trumpet. Clearly, for all the highbrow reading you would do, you fail to grasp that one.

And you failed at seeing the irony of my post.
Dumbass.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:14 pm 
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All your posts have been cocksure to the point of twisting my bowels in disgust, so don't be surprised if we treat you like this.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:30 pm 
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Karmakosmonaut wrote:
Reading Polybios' World Histories, translated to Dutch. Fantastic how 2300 years later certain insights into peoples' characters still ring true. Also, what a fucking hero Philip V was. Conquering eight cities in six days... Great read so far, a definite recommendation for fans of history (Fingon, I'm pointing at you).


Yep, gotta love Polybius. If only we weren't missing shitloads of his work... Though that's partially made up for by Livy Books 21-45, which are largely based on Polybius, but still... Polybius is a better historian most of the time (at least from our perspective) and wrote a world history, as opposed to a Roman one like Livy.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:26 am 
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I've only read certain bits of Livius yet, but I'm planning on buying the whole set of books - there's one publisher here in the Lowlands that publishes the ancient historians' works, Polybios, Livius, Tacitus etc. in quite luxurious and, most importantly, well-translated editions.

In other news, I've recently come across a third edition of Edward Gibbon's complete The Rise And Fall for only eighty euros... and then had to let it go with tears in my eyes as someone got to it ahead of me. The guy offered to split the books between us, but I thought it futile. I cursed myself quite a bit afterwards.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:05 am 
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cry of the banshee wrote:
traptunderice wrote:
Just received Zizek's newest in the mail, First as Tragedy, Then as Farce. Apparently he finally ousts himself as a communist and like always doesn't lay out the groundwork in minute details so people have gotten pissy about it.

Also jumped into the VL Allen last night before bed. This one sentence is kicking my ass because I don't know if he is describing what empiricists do or should be doing.

Anyways I'm now also reading Sartre's Being and Nothingness, having finished Nausea.


What did you think of it (Nausea)? I found it a bit intangible, but interesting enough.

My Favorite Sartre is Troubled Sleep
It was definitely odd. Some of the journal entries just seemed so surreal or absurd that I didn't know what the fuck I was reading. Overall it's cool though. It helped knowing just what he was going for philosophically, basically just the death of forms and essences and now things are uprooted from some transcendent meaning and they just exist with no function or purpose except to be. I'll have to check out Troubled Sleep. I really liked No Exit and The Flies (at least I think it was, it was the one about a hanging in the deep South or something rather) but those are the standards.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:12 am 
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rio wrote:
traptunderice wrote:
Just received Zizek's newest in the mail, First as Tragedy, Then as Farce. Apparently he finally ousts himself as a communist and like always doesn't lay out the groundwork in minute details so people have gotten pissy about it.

Also jumped into the VL Allen last night before bed. This one sentence is kicking my ass because I don't know if he is describing what empiricists do or should be doing.

Anyways I'm now also reading Sartre's Being and Nothingness, having finished Nausea.


Which sentence?
I can't find it but it was early on and he was describing how when we perceive phenomena we bring our own framework of seeing and point of view which is applied to the phenomena and out of that arises what we actually perceive. That sounds dialectical but it almost seems like it could come out of some Locke.

Oh and while I'm thinking of it I'd highly recommend forking out the $13 equivalent in pounds for the new Zizek. It's probably the best out of the four I've read of his. I have 20 pages left or so and it has blown my mind several times over. He is describing positive revolutionary prospectives, he wipes away the USSR's past failings by quoting Lenin himself, he criticizes anti-semitism to help buff his reputation and he defines the "dictatorship of the proletariat" and points out Hugo Chavez is successfully implementing it. It's really damn good. His insight into the most recent economic meltdown maybe rather obvious to a Marxist but when he actually talks about positive emancipatory politics like never before it's really good.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:43 am 
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traptunderice wrote:
cry of the banshee wrote:
traptunderice wrote:
Just received Zizek's newest in the mail, First as Tragedy, Then as Farce. Apparently he finally ousts himself as a communist and like always doesn't lay out the groundwork in minute details so people have gotten pissy about it.

Also jumped into the VL Allen last night before bed. This one sentence is kicking my ass because I don't know if he is describing what empiricists do or should be doing.

Anyways I'm now also reading Sartre's Being and Nothingness, having finished Nausea.


What did you think of it (Nausea)? I found it a bit intangible, but interesting enough.

My Favorite Sartre is Troubled Sleep
It was definitely odd. Some of the journal entries just seemed so surreal or absurd that I didn't know what the fuck I was reading. Overall it's cool though. It helped knowing just what he was going for philosophically, basically just the death of forms and essences and now things are uprooted from some transcendent meaning and they just exist with no function or purpose except to be. I'll have to check out Troubled Sleep. I really liked No Exit and The Flies (at least I think it was, it was the one about a hanging in the deep South or something rather) but those are the standards.


Yeah, it's (Nausea) not a very accessible read. It's pretty abstract.
Check out Troubled Sleep, it's quite good.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:38 pm 
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traptunderice wrote:
rio wrote:
traptunderice wrote:
Just received Zizek's newest in the mail, First as Tragedy, Then as Farce. Apparently he finally ousts himself as a communist and like always doesn't lay out the groundwork in minute details so people have gotten pissy about it.

Also jumped into the VL Allen last night before bed. This one sentence is kicking my ass because I don't know if he is describing what empiricists do or should be doing.

Anyways I'm now also reading Sartre's Being and Nothingness, having finished Nausea.


Which sentence?
I can't find it but it was early on and he was describing how when we perceive phenomena we bring our own framework of seeing and point of view which is applied to the phenomena and out of that arises what we actually perceive. That sounds dialectical but it almost seems like it could come out of some Locke.

Oh and while I'm thinking of it I'd highly recommend forking out the $13 equivalent in pounds for the new Zizek. It's probably the best out of the four I've read of his. I have 20 pages left or so and it has blown my mind several times over. He is describing positive revolutionary prospectives, he wipes away the USSR's past failings by quoting Lenin himself, he criticizes anti-semitism to help buff his reputation and he defines the "dictatorship of the proletariat" and points out Hugo Chavez is successfully implementing it. It's really damn good. His insight into the most recent economic meltdown maybe rather obvious to a Marxist but when he actually talks about positive emancipatory politics like never before it's really good.


Hm, the sentence sounds to me like it's describing empiricism, because it's a very individualist way of philosophising. A dialectician would maybe look more at the way in which objective contradictions in society, external to the subject, shape the subject's consciousness...?

The Zizek does sound interesting. I've slowed down a bit with In Defence of Lost Causes because he's suddenly gone into a long, long section detailing some argument with another theorist that I don't understand... something about Lacan as usual... But you shouldn't tempt me as I am snowed under with books I should be reading at the moment.

How do you mean he wipes away the USSR's failings by referencing Lenin? You mean he is exonerating Lenin of them, or he is rationalising supposed failings by invoking him? Also, it would be interesting to see how "Chavez = dictatorship of the proletariat" could be sustained.

NR: John Reed- Ten Days that Shook the World


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:05 pm 
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Zizek basically says we have to start completely anew from the Really Existing Socialism of the USSR. He quotes Lenin's On Ascending a High Mountain and how 'true communists must begin anew over and over again'. So any future politics has the same goal but has to be completely rethought. He basically pins the failings of the USSR on a Lacanian/Foucault distinction of keeping the master or power away from that which establishes knowledge. He mainly pins the atrocities on Stalin as he is a Leninist but he isn't pardoning either of them.

As for Chavez, he apparently is reshaping politics to cater to the excluded, ex: subsidizing worker cooperatives and taking the slum dwellers as his political base. The dictatorship isn't a political class domineering over another but actual shifting politics in a way supportive of the proletariat.

It's a short quick read and is very sparse in dense Lacanian-isms.

And now back to Metaethics. :sad:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:05 am 
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Karmakosmonaut wrote:
Reading Polybios' World Histories, translated to Dutch. Fantastic how 2300 years later certain insights into peoples' characters still ring true. Also, what a fucking hero Philip V was. Conquering eight cities in six days... Great read so far, a definite recommendation for fans of history (Fingon, I'm pointing at you).


Read of few extracts of Polybius for a assignment on Historiography in the Classic Age and liked it so it's on my list for sure. Probably won't get round to getting it before february, because of papers, exams and the lack of a quality book store in Leuven. Cheers for the recommendation btw!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:52 am 
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cry of the banshee wrote:
Radagast wrote:
Back to reading some Lovecraft, thanks for the inspiration rio. Just finished The Hound, now onto The Rats in the Walls.


Good stuff. The Hound is probably my fav Lovecraft, but they're all good.

Really? I know it's not his most well-regarded, in fact the man himself hated it I believe. No accounting for taste, eh? I thought it was a bit lightweight, but still nicely creepy.


Last edited by Radagast on Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:58 pm 
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I just cracked open Fahrenheit 451 again.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:33 pm 
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Don't want to post any spoilers, but I've finished the new Wheel of Time book and it is actually... (wait for it)... good. Not great, and there's still some bloat, but the plot advances, it focuses on interesting characters who develop in interesting ways (Rand! The main character! Is in it! For more than two chapters! Wow!), and while Sanderson's writing is nothing amazing, it is a hell of a lot better than Jordan's, and he can at least write female characters who are slightly interesting and have some self awareness. So, a fun and good read. Maybe there is hope for the end of this series after all.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:35 pm 
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Brahm_K wrote:
Don't want to post any spoilers, but I've finished the new Wheel of Time book and it is actually... (wait for it)... good. Not great, and there's still some bloat, but the plot advances, it focuses on interesting characters who develop in interesting ways (Rand! The main character! Is in it! For more than two chapters! Wow!), and while Sanderson's writing is nothing amazing, it is a hell of a lot better than Jordan's, and he can at least write female characters who are slightly interesting and have some self awareness. So, a fun and good read. Maybe there is hope for the end of this series after all.


:D

Good news!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:40 am 
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Raven wrote:
I just cracked open Fahrenheit 451 again.


It's kind of the sad little cousin to 1984 and Brave New World for me. Still a good read though


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:01 am 
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Rhys wrote:
Raven wrote:
I just cracked open Fahrenheit 451 again.


It's kind of the sad little cousin to 1984 and Brave New World for me. Still a good read though
A Clockwork Orange dominates all three in classic dystopian novels.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:24 am 
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traptunderice wrote:
Rhys wrote:
Raven wrote:
I just cracked open Fahrenheit 451 again.


It's kind of the sad little cousin to 1984 and Brave New World for me. Still a good read though
A Clockwork Orange dominates all three in classic dystopian novels.


Touche sir


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:27 pm 
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Starting Anne Marie Macdoald's Good Night Desdemona today.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:39 pm 
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Going to read up on Foucault as it turns out I'm going to be leading seminars on him over the next couple of weeks :omfg:

And I don't really know much about him at all... time for some revision.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:13 pm 
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rio wrote:
Going to read up on Foucault as it turns out I'm going to be leading seminars on him over the next couple of weeks :omfg:

And I don't really know much about him at all... time for some revision.
Quote:
foucault essentially asks: how is nietzsche's ubermensch possible within the world of heidegger's enframing (ge-stell) which alienates (pace hegel / feuerbach / marx) us from ourselves (as "dasein")? rolling eyes

foucault's project:

homoerotic "care of self" as resistance to the discipline-effects of norm / deviance structures generated by systems of institutions (e.g. clinic, prison, asylum, school, factory, etc) which constitute a well-regulated, panoptically administered (bourgeois) 'society'; the development of these norm / deviance structures (aka epistemes) can be approximately recovered as layers / strata via an archeological method; and resistances to the discipline-effects of norm / deviance structures can be historicized via a genealogical method which interprets practices & accounts of "desire" as a hermeneutics of subjectivity; both methods applied concurrently can inform ad hoc, decentralized, local strategies of opposition by uncovering temporarily accessible fissures in the regimes & apparatuses of social control.

this is what i take from foucault (sans jargon & rhetoric), but certaintly it's not all there is. as far as i'm concerned his project begins with "a politics of subversion" (radical relativism) and culminates in "an ethics of desire-as-transgression" (polymorphic perversity) as opposition to authoritarian mentalities (e.g. fascism, puritanism, legalism, scientism, etc).

Foucault says that it is indeed futile to expect a complete revolution which will make everything perfect. All systems are dangerous because all systems have an inherent repressive element. But at the same time all systems have pockets of resistance to the system. These are driven by an untheoretic awareness of there being something wrong ('intolerable', he once said).

He primarily attacks those philosophers who believe that truth and science will help liberation, by showing how those very sentiments have led us to be less free in certain respects (or at least have led to some people, the outsiders, to be less free).
I found this off a philosophy forum a while back. So what aspect of his thought are you focusing on? The genealogical method, revolutionary prospects, the panopticon and control, sexuality and the formation of knowledge, the scientific/medical/male gaze? My two professors at community college were Foucault experts so I was given a solid dose of it.


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