the post count +1 thread

noodles · **Posted:** Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:11 pm

If all you do in a philosophy class is repeat things you might get a C if you're really good at repeating things. Maybe an exaggeration but it's definitely not what the teachers want.

cry of the banshee · **Posted:** Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:13 pm

noodles wrote:

If all you do in a philosophy class is repeat things you might get a C if you're really good at repeating things.

There's more to academia than philosophy, now isn't there?
Anyway, I'm sure you know what I meant.

rio · **Posted:** Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:15 pm

cry of the banshee wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

6) Half of my family is Jewish, so should he ever need financial aid of any sort I'd be more likely to be able to give it to him. ;)

You're going to financially support 100s of kids produced from your single instance of jerking it?

No, but I'll give them the secret of financial happiness. Take business classes in college.

Ummmm business degrees are the most heavily saturated degree within the job market. I don't think it'd get them anywhere.

Better than a philosophy degree. My dad screwed us over nicely with that one. Cool, you're a genius with a PhD in philosophy of music from Oxford. What job other than giving seminaries in Conservatories can you find?

I plan on being a professor. Or I could go to law school. Law school wouldn't pay any measly bills now would it? I'm siding with Rio on this. I'd rather be poor than be dumb.

As if just because one doesn't have a higher education, they are "dumb"... lot of over-educated idiots walking around, lined up at the unemployment office.
I can teach a parrot to repeat things, does that make it "smart"?

It's easy to say things like "I'd rather be poor than be dumb", until you are actually living in poverty, that is.

But in fairness if you are doing a university degree you are unlikely to end up in poverty either way.

EDIT: But yes, if you do a practically useless subject, and all it does is teach you to parrot things, then that truly is the worst of all worlds.

Cú Chulainn · **Posted:** Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:24 pm

traptunderice wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

You don't need a philosophy degree to not be dumb. But it would be nice to have a decent job. Anyway, I should be ok, if I applied for a philosophy course it's a joint bachelors with politics or international relations.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say philosophy programs in the states are the only ones that actually teach students to think critically. Thinking critically equals being not dumb.

You're probably right. However, I grew up with philosophy as part of my childhood, and my high school program has a pretty strong epistemology course. So I shouldn't have a problem with critical thinking.

traptunderice · **Posted:** Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:24 pm

cry of the banshee wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

6) Half of my family is Jewish, so should he ever need financial aid of any sort I'd be more likely to be able to give it to him. ;)

You're going to financially support 100s of kids produced from your single instance of jerking it?

No, but I'll give them the secret of financial happiness. Take business classes in college.

Ummmm business degrees are the most heavily saturated degree within the job market. I don't think it'd get them anywhere.

Better than a philosophy degree. My dad screwed us over nicely with that one. Cool, you're a genius with a PhD in philosophy of music from Oxford. What job other than giving seminaries in Conservatories can you find?

I plan on being a professor. Or I could go to law school. Law school wouldn't pay any measly bills now would it? I'm siding with Rio on this. I'd rather be poor than be dumb.

As if just because one doesn't have a higher education, they are "dumb"... lot of over-educated idiots walking around, lined up at the unemployment office.
I can teach a parrot to repeat things, does that make it "smart"?

It's easy to say things like "I'd rather be poor than be dumb", until you are actually living in poverty, that is.

Thinking critically is the opposite of being a parrot.

Yeah it would be easy to say those things if I hadn't lived in poverty but it's also a lot easier having lived in poverty and been around it my whole life to say that as well.

rio · **Posted:** Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:31 pm

FrigidSymphony wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

You don't need a philosophy degree to not be dumb. But it would be nice to have a decent job. Anyway, I should be ok, if I applied for a philosophy course it's a joint bachelors with politics or international relations.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say philosophy programs in the states are the only ones that actually teach students to think critically. Thinking critically equals being not dumb.

You're probably right. However, I grew up with philosophy as part of my childhood, and my high school program has a pretty strong epistemology course. So I shouldn't have a problem with critical thinking.

I'm tempted to say that the whole point of business degrees is to prevent critical thinking, but given that I actually tutor on a business course I really had better not. :wacko:

Heh, only joking, anyways.

traptunderice · **Posted:** Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:39 pm

rio wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

You don't need a philosophy degree to not be dumb. But it would be nice to have a decent job. Anyway, I should be ok, if I applied for a philosophy course it's a joint bachelors with politics or international relations.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say philosophy programs in the states are the only ones that actually teach students to think critically. Thinking critically equals being not dumb.

You're probably right. However, I grew up with philosophy as part of my childhood, and my high school program has a pretty strong epistemology course. So I shouldn't have a problem with critical thinking.

I'm tempted to say that the whole point of business degrees is to prevent critical thinking, but given that I actually tutor on a business course I really had better not. :wacko:

Heh, only joking, anyways.

Frig is going for a phil. degree so it's cool. Business programs create drones.

rio · **Posted:** Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:45 pm

traptunderice wrote:

rio wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

You don't need a philosophy degree to not be dumb. But it would be nice to have a decent job. Anyway, I should be ok, if I applied for a philosophy course it's a joint bachelors with politics or international relations.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say philosophy programs in the states are the only ones that actually teach students to think critically. Thinking critically equals being not dumb.

You're probably right. However, I grew up with philosophy as part of my childhood, and my high school program has a pretty strong epistemology course. So I shouldn't have a problem with critical thinking.

I'm tempted to say that the whole point of business degrees is to prevent critical thinking, but given that I actually tutor on a business course I really had better not. :wacko:

Heh, only joking, anyways.

Frig is going for a phil. degree so it's cool. Business programs create drones.

The "business" module I teach is a bit more critical; about key sociological thinkers (i.e. Marx, Durkheim, Weber) and then things like labour process theory and gender perspectives on work. All of which makes you engage with pretty radical ideas. The problem is getting students to show any interest in concepts outside of mainstream business ideology, which is often extremely hard.

noodles · **Posted:** Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:51 pm

Yeah one of my philosophy teachers used to talk about teaching business ethics and at first she was excited about giving business majors souls but then discovered they're not very interested in the ideas.

cry of the banshee wrote:

noodles wrote:

If all you do in a philosophy class is repeat things you might get a C if you're really good at repeating things.

There's more to academia than philosophy, now isn't there?
Anyway, I'm sure you know what I meant.

Yeah. Although the only class where I basically just parroted stuff was psychology, and that was an intro class full of people who didn't know what they wanted to do at school and weren't interested in actually doing work.

traptunderice · **Posted:** Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:59 pm

rio wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

rio wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

You don't need a philosophy degree to not be dumb. But it would be nice to have a decent job. Anyway, I should be ok, if I applied for a philosophy course it's a joint bachelors with politics or international relations.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say philosophy programs in the states are the only ones that actually teach students to think critically. Thinking critically equals being not dumb.

You're probably right. However, I grew up with philosophy as part of my childhood, and my high school program has a pretty strong epistemology course. So I shouldn't have a problem with critical thinking.

I'm tempted to say that the whole point of business degrees is to prevent critical thinking, but given that I actually tutor on a business course I really had better not. :wacko:

Heh, only joking, anyways.

Frig is going for a phil. degree so it's cool. Business programs create drones.

The "business" module I teach is a bit more critical; about key sociological thinkers (i.e. Marx, Durkheim, Weber) and then things like labour process theory and gender perspectives on work. All of which makes you engage with pretty radical ideas. The problem is getting students to show any interest in concepts outside of mainstream business ideology, which is often extremely hard.

In the states that would probably just get thrown in with sociology solely. I want to say business programs here are really conservative, i.e., labor theory falls under economic theory programs while the "business" program stays strictly to finances, accounting and marketing.

Azrael · **Posted:** Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:09 am

rio wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

rio wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

You don't need a philosophy degree to not be dumb. But it would be nice to have a decent job. Anyway, I should be ok, if I applied for a philosophy course it's a joint bachelors with politics or international relations.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say philosophy programs in the states are the only ones that actually teach students to think critically. Thinking critically equals being not dumb.

You're probably right. However, I grew up with philosophy as part of my childhood, and my high school program has a pretty strong epistemology course. So I shouldn't have a problem with critical thinking.

I'm tempted to say that the whole point of business degrees is to prevent critical thinking, but given that I actually tutor on a business course I really had better not. :wacko:

Heh, only joking, anyways.

Frig is going for a phil. degree so it's cool. Business programs create drones.

The "business" module I teach is a bit more critical; about key sociological thinkers (i.e. Marx, Durkheim, Weber) and then things like labour process theory and gender perspectives on work. All of which makes you engage with pretty radical ideas. The problem is getting students to show any interest in concepts outside of mainstream business ideology, which is often extremely hard.

Business programmes create drones? i beg to differ.

(i'm in a management programme)
i think that in fact that is, or at least should be, a very strong emphasis on thinking critically. sure, you are taught models and frameworks and all that crap, but especially in subjects like corporate governance you are asked to reflect on very thorny issues and to see things from every possible perspective, and to take into account many different implications.

furthermore, these days there is the subject very much in vogue of corporate social responsibility and sustainable business, and it raises several interesting questions (see the Guardian link Zad posted on postcount+1 for an example).

edit - this is pc+1 lol.

traptunderice · **Posted:** Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:11 am

Azrael wrote:

rio wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

rio wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

You don't need a philosophy degree to not be dumb. But it would be nice to have a decent job. Anyway, I should be ok, if I applied for a philosophy course it's a joint bachelors with politics or international relations.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say philosophy programs in the states are the only ones that actually teach students to think critically. Thinking critically equals being not dumb.

You're probably right. However, I grew up with philosophy as part of my childhood, and my high school program has a pretty strong epistemology course. So I shouldn't have a problem with critical thinking.

I'm tempted to say that the whole point of business degrees is to prevent critical thinking, but given that I actually tutor on a business course I really had better not. :wacko:

Heh, only joking, anyways.

Frig is going for a phil. degree so it's cool. Business programs create drones.

The "business" module I teach is a bit more critical; about key sociological thinkers (i.e. Marx, Durkheim, Weber) and then things like labour process theory and gender perspectives on work. All of which makes you engage with pretty radical ideas. The problem is getting students to show any interest in concepts outside of mainstream business ideology, which is often extremely hard.

Business programmes create drones? i beg to differ.

(i'm in a management programme)
i think that in fact that is, or at least should be, a very strong emphasis on thinking critically. sure, you are taught models and frameworks and all that crap, but especially in subjects like corporate governance you are asked to reflect on very thorny issues and to see things from every possible perspective, and to take into account many different implications.

furthermore, these days there is the subject very much in vogue of corporate social responsibility and sustainable business, and it raises several issues (see the Guardian link Zad posted on postcount+1 for an example).

You're in a grad program, no? Surely that would be different than the standard 4 year degree so prevalent in the field?

cry of the banshee · **Posted:** Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:21 am

rio wrote:

cry of the banshee wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

6) Half of my family is Jewish, so should he ever need financial aid of any sort I'd be more likely to be able to give it to him. ;)

You're going to financially support 100s of kids produced from your single instance of jerking it?

No, but I'll give them the secret of financial happiness. Take business classes in college.

Ummmm business degrees are the most heavily saturated degree within the job market. I don't think it'd get them anywhere.

Better than a philosophy degree. My dad screwed us over nicely with that one. Cool, you're a genius with a PhD in philosophy of music from Oxford. What job other than giving seminaries in Conservatories can you find?

I plan on being a professor. Or I could go to law school. Law school wouldn't pay any measly bills now would it? I'm siding with Rio on this. I'd rather be poor than be dumb.

As if just because one doesn't have a higher education, they are "dumb"... lot of over-educated idiots walking around, lined up at the unemployment office.
I can teach a parrot to repeat things, does that make it "smart"?

It's easy to say things like "I'd rather be poor than be dumb", until you are actually living in poverty, that is.

But in fairness if you are doing a university degree you are unlikely to end up in poverty either way.

EDIT: But yes, if you do a practically useless subject, and all it does is teach you to parrot things, then that truly is the worst of all worlds.

The job market definitely values education (or experience, which is the same thing at times).
Meh, philosophy is all well and good, but it is (for me, at least) no more than food for thought, and something to bullshit about over beers with friends.

cry of the banshee · **Posted:** Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:23 am

noodles wrote:

Yeah one of my philosophy teachers used to talk about teaching business ethics and at first she was excited about giving business majors souls but then discovered they're not very interested in the ideas.

cry of the banshee wrote:

noodles wrote:

If all you do in a philosophy class is repeat things you might get a C if you're really good at repeating things.

There's more to academia than philosophy, now isn't there?
Anyway, I'm sure you know what I meant.

Yeah. Although the only class where I basically just parroted stuff was psychology, and that was an intro class full of people who didn't know what they wanted to do at school and weren't interested in actually doing work.

hmmm, my wife has a MA in child education and she had to take a shitload of Psych. some of it's interesting stuff (used to leaf through her textbooks) and the physiology of the brain is pretty complicated.

traptunderice · **Posted:** Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:33 am

cry of the banshee wrote:

philosophy ...is (for me, at least) no more than food for thought, and something to bullshit about over beers with friends.

That's because you haven't read Marx, the Dutch of philosophy.

cry of the banshee · **Posted:** Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:44 am

traptunderice wrote:

cry of the banshee wrote:

philosophy ...is (for me, at least) no more than food for thought, and something to bullshit about over beers with friends.

That's because you haven't read Marx, the Dutch of philosophy.

That right there's nothing but pure communism.

Azrael · **Posted:** Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:45 am

traptunderice: yeah, but i also did my undergrad in business. but in most of Europe (i think), most undegrad courses are 3 years, and admittedly both in Lisbon and Nottingham (where i spent a semester) there wasn't much on critical thinking.

i mean, in Notts it was kind of different. in exams you were expected to cite papers, but in your own papers you were very much expected to add your own thoughts on a issue, although under some clear framework. in Lisbon there was barely any critical thinking but my uni was admittedly pretty crap :ph34r:

edit: also, hedge funds, banks and consultancies, to name a few, often employ philosophy majors.

North From Here · **Posted:** Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:23 pm

traptunderice wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

You don't need a philosophy degree to not be dumb. But it would be nice to have a decent job. Anyway, I should be ok, if I applied for a philosophy course it's a joint bachelors with politics or international relations.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say philosophy programs in the states are the only ones that actually teach students to think critically. Thinking critically equals being not dumb.

This conclusion wouldn't have been reached because you happen to be a philosophy major, trapt?:lol:

As far as your limb, I think I partially agree, unless I am misinterpreting. Critical thought, I mean analysis here, was encouraged in the upper level undergrad history courses I took. But, I also had the advantage of taking a few philosophy classes as early electives, and that was really useful. I think a large advantage the L.A. majors have is those students generally learn how to write, and that, I think, makes a major difference in the eyes of the more astute employer.

I've had a fair bit of experience with business major interns, and while some of them have been very sharp (and with developed skills I don't claim to have), a large number of them write on a high school level or worse, and are not exactly 'idea people'.

Goat · **Posted:** Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:24 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ullet.html

Quote:

Groom shot dead at wedding by uncle's stray celebratory bullet

By Dean Nelson in New Delhi
Published: 1:38PM GMT 19 Feb 2010

Pankaj Kishore Karotia, 21, was just about to claim his new bride and take her from a wedding reception to her family home when his uncle drew his licensed handgun to fire a final shot in celebration. As he was loading it, it fired accidentally and hit his newly-wed nephew in the head.

The reception party was almost finished when the tragedy happened. His new bride was waiting for him in the car as he died.

The groom's father said the uncle was "eager and excited" about the wedding and wanted to fire another shot to make the end of the celebrations.

A police spokesman said "the bullet made a hole in the brain" and confirmed the uncle had been arrested for culpable homicide.

Gunfire has become an increasingly popular celebration custom at lavish Indian weddings in recent years.

It says a lot about my mood today that I chuckled upon first reading this.

Afro_D-Shak · **Posted:** Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:08 pm

Metal Reviews

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