The General Politics Thread

traptunderice · **Posted:** Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:48 am

cry of the banshee wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

That's fine. I'm not as dogmatic as you'd think. Hell, hasn't the moderate position become dogma by now? What isn't dogma besides something new and path paving?

Pragmatism and common sense.
Taking what works and discarding what doesn't.
Working in tandem and with the flow of human nature.
Forgetting about pipe-dreams and an impossible utopian society where everybody has just what they need, shoulders their share of the burden and everybody loves one another like a brother.
Never going to happen, so why waste time and energy on fairytales?

Is ending exploitation and living sustainably a pipe dream? If it is, does it have to be. Do it however you want I just see a need for a large overhaul. Workers shouldn't be treated like shit. People shouldn't benefit off of others' misery.

North From Here · **Posted:** Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:48 am

traptunderice wrote:

@emperor: would you mind elaborating on what you think of as the problem within Russia?

Without knowing much about the sociological conditions, I could suppose something and spout it off but that would be dumb. V will teach me modesty.

Russia (and other parts of Eastern Europe) is facing a population crisis unlike ever seen in the modern world. The dangerous far right reaction is due to the fact that ethnic Russians are literally drinking themselves to death, with massive immigration of Central Asian Muslims testing the very element of 'Russianess'. Putin and friends have offered baby incentives, but as far as I know, little has worked. The late Soviet system challenged vodka sales as a chronic plague to the health of the nation, but those plans miserably failed against popular and state store protest.

The death of this poor kid will be one of many, unless Russian national identity can be reformed.

Edit-I wrote a paper on Russian national identity last year, trapt. It isn't directly related, (more on historical identity) but may have some interest to you.

Goat · **Posted:** Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:10 am

cry of the banshee wrote:

Pragmatism and common sense.
Taking what works and discarding what doesn't.
Working in tandem and with the flow of human nature.
Forgetting about pipe-dreams and an impossible utopian society where everybody has just what they need, shoulders their share of the burden and everybody loves one another like a brother.
Never going to happen, so why waste time and energy on fairytales?

traptunderice · **Posted:** Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:17 am

emperorblackdoom wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

@emperor: would you mind elaborating on what you think of as the problem within Russia?

Without knowing much about the sociological conditions, I could suppose something and spout it off but that would be dumb. V will teach me modesty.

Russia (and other parts of Eastern Europe) is facing a population crisis unlike ever seen in the modern world. The dangerous far right reaction is due to the fact that ethnic Russians are literally drinking themselves to death, with massive immigration of Central Asian Muslims testing the very element of 'Russianess'. Putin and friends have offered baby incentives, but as far as I know, little has worked. The late Soviet system challenged vodka sales as a chronic plague to the health of the nation, but those plans miserably failed against popular and state store protest.

The death of this poor kid will be one of many, unless Russian national identity can be reformed.

Edit-I wrote a paper on Russian national identity last year, trapt. It isn't directly related, (more on historical identity) but may have some interest to you.

Copy and pasted into a PM would be cool.

And Z just agreed with V so I'm getting the fuck out.

North From Here · **Posted:** Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:26 am

traptunderice wrote:

emperorblackdoom wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

@emperor: would you mind elaborating on what you think of as the problem within Russia?

Without knowing much about the sociological conditions, I could suppose something and spout it off but that would be dumb. V will teach me modesty.

Russia (and other parts of Eastern Europe) is facing a population crisis unlike ever seen in the modern world. The dangerous far right reaction is due to the fact that ethnic Russians are literally drinking themselves to death, with massive immigration of Central Asian Muslims testing the very element of 'Russianess'. Putin and friends have offered baby incentives, but as far as I know, little has worked. The late Soviet system challenged vodka sales as a chronic plague to the health of the nation, but those plans miserably failed against popular and state store protest.

The death of this poor kid will be one of many, unless Russian national identity can be reformed.

Edit-I wrote a paper on Russian national identity last year, trapt. It isn't directly related, (more on historical identity) but may have some interest to you.

Copy and pasted into a PM would be cool.

And Z just agreed with V so I'm getting the fuck out.

The older I get, the less I feel certain about anything.

traptunderice · **Posted:** Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:30 am

I can't pull out.

Quote:

He talked about change-making in starkly radical terms, explicitly rejecting the purported pragmatism we're now urged to accept on everything from immigration to jobs to healthcare. "This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off or to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism," he insisted. Before he got around to kids holding hands and singing about freedom, King talked about the "whirlwinds of revolt" that would make that moment possible, about the need to "shake the foundations of our nation until the bright day of justice emerges."

Goat · **Posted:** Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:42 am

I think the only thing that V and I actually disagree on is immigration. And how good Venom are, heh. I like how the standard political view in these parts is either Marxist or New Right, and anything between is generally ridiculed. What about us, the people in the middle? :omfg:

Cú Chulainn · **Posted:** Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:02 am

Islamophobia is a bullshit term. Phobia implies irrational fear. Fear of Islam is very well founded indeed.

And dammit, just because both me and Fox are anti-Islam does not equate us. Fox are Christian, who don't like Islam because they're racist and RARRR AMERICA CHRISTIAN NATION. I don't like religions in general, and Islam seems the most dangerous one currently. Pretending otherwise is naive.

Goat · **Posted:** Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:08 pm

To change track slightly, I thought this should be brought to peoples' attention:

http://www.oldholborn.net/2010/08/commo ... ppeal.html

Quote:

When Ben Gunn was 14 and living in care, he killed his friend after a row. To reflect his age and evident remorse, Gunn was sentenced to 10 years in prison. And yet 30 years later he is still inside. He will be 45 this year.

I know prison is full of people serving long sentences but Ben is slightly different in that rather than demand Playstations, snooker tables, Sky Sports or bogs that don't face Mecca, he has been financing his own PhD through his blog. The Ministry are refusing to supply him with writing paper whilst supplying everyone else with tobacco, fully fitted gyms and TVs.

He needs just £1600 to finish his doctorate. As and when he is released, he will be a PhD rather than an uneducated ex con and he has chosen this path instead of wallowing in his sentence.

You have an opportunity to create something worthwhile after 30 years in jail. An ex con with a Doctorate. I'm happy to donate. You are free to ignore this request to a man to leave prison with a first class education, paid for by himself and donations, not the taxpayer.

Disgraceful that they currently give prisoners cigarettes but not paper. I donated, please do if you can. The prison system over here will hopefully be going through an ideological overview soon if funds permit, moving away from mindless "lock 'em up and throw away the key" dogma towards actually helping those that can be helped. Fingers crossed.

rio · **Posted:** Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:09 pm

A good general rule: every word you write in the general politics thread lowers your IQ by half a point. I half probably suffered more than most from this.

I have read more sensible discussions on the Yahoo newsgroups than the ones we supposedly sensible people are able to collectively produce on this site.

rio · **Posted:** Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:55 pm

Also, is this just me, but I have seen Goat morph from Green Party to "mandatory abortions for teenage girls" to Lib Dem fanboy to "agreeing with V on everything except imigration" over the course of several years. I tells ya, the ONLY thing that has never, ever changed, is the way he presents himself as the innocent moderate caught in the middle of all the extremists.

Goat · **Posted:** Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:58 pm

Wow, several years, how awful. Is no-one allowed to change their mind? I never seriously wanted mandatory abortions or supported the Greens, anyhow. More IQ points lost from rio. :wink:

Karmakosmonaut · **Posted:** Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:06 pm

FrigidSymphony wrote:

Islamophobia is a bullshit term. Phobia implies irrational fear. Fear of Islam is very well founded indeed.

And dammit, just because both me and Fox are anti-Islam does not equate us. Fox are Christian, who don't like Islam because they're racist and RARRR AMERICA CHRISTIAN NATION. I don't like religions in general, and Islam seems the most dangerous one currently. Pretending otherwise is naive.

Then why are you pro-Jewry?

rio · **Posted:** Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:18 pm

Goat wrote:

Wow, several years, how awful. Is no-one allowed to change their mind? I never seriously wanted mandatory abortions or supported the Greens, anyhow. More IQ points lost from rio. :wink:

Seemed pretty serious at the time, fellow! I remember you getting quite het up about these things...

Goat · **Posted:** Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:23 pm

Rio, I can't be bothered arguing about something I can barely remember, to be honest, so I'll content myself with saying if I ever got "het up" in favour of teenage abortion, it seems quite silly in hindsight.

Cú Chulainn · **Posted:** Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:22 pm

Karmakosmonaut wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

Islamophobia is a bullshit term. Phobia implies irrational fear. Fear of Islam is very well founded indeed.

And dammit, just because both me and Fox are anti-Islam does not equate us. Fox are Christian, who don't like Islam because they're racist and RARRR AMERICA CHRISTIAN NATION. I don't like religions in general, and Islam seems the most dangerous one currently. Pretending otherwise is naive.

Then why are you pro-Jewry?

I'm pro-Israel because the alternative would be more power to Islam. I'm not pro-Judaism, I'm pro-secular-country-in-the-middle-of-a-fucking-fundie-shitsandstorm.

rio · **Posted:** Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:22 pm

[quote="Goat"]Rio, I can't be bothered arguing about something I can barely remember, to be honest, so I'll content myself with saying if I ever got "het up" in favour of teenage abortion, it seems quite silly in hindsight.[/quote

Well, exactly. My point is just that even then you were all like "I can't believe you crazy extremists don't believe in mandatory abortions for teenagers"... just a pattern I noticed is all

traptunderice · **Posted:** Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:30 pm

FrigidSymphony wrote:

Islamophobia is a bullshit term. Phobia implies irrational fear. Fear of Islam is very well founded indeed.

And dammit, just because both me and Fox are anti-Islam does not equate us. Fox are Christian, who don't like Islam because they're racist and RARRR AMERICA CHRISTIAN NATION. I don't like religions in general, and Islam seems the most dangerous one currently. Pretending otherwise is naive.

When you and Fox are both saying quell the dragon with military force and Israeli state imperialism, it's a lot different than basic 'anti-Islam' sentiments. FOX doesn't say it for Christian nation it says it for rich American interests.

Cú Chulainn · **Posted:** Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:42 pm

traptunderice wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

Islamophobia is a bullshit term. Phobia implies irrational fear. Fear of Islam is very well founded indeed.

And dammit, just because both me and Fox are anti-Islam does not equate us. Fox are Christian, who don't like Islam because they're racist and RARRR AMERICA CHRISTIAN NATION. I don't like religions in general, and Islam seems the most dangerous one currently. Pretending otherwise is naive.

When you and Fox are both saying quell the dragon with military force and Israeli state imperialism, it's a lot different than basic 'anti-Islam' sentiments. FOX doesn't say it for Christian nation it says it for rich American interests.

Woah, hang on. Voting for legislation to stop the propagation of the Muslim faith is not "military force", and defending Israel's right to protect itself against its neighbours is not "Israeli state imperialism". You're setting up straw-men.

Goat · **Posted:** Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:57 pm

rio wrote:

Well, exactly. My point is just that even then you were all like "I can't believe you crazy extremists don't believe in mandatory abortions for teenagers"... just a pattern I noticed is all

I'm sure there was at least a bit of tongue-cheek interaction going on, but whatever. You crazy extremist, memorising every single thing I ever said!

Maybe I should start a new thread, call it 'Fridge's "Fuck Islam!" Thread'.

Metal Reviews

The General Politics Thread

Who is online