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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:35 pm 
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Goat wrote:
What's the word on this Gary Johnson fellow? Seems to be a more sensible Ron Paul, from what I can glean, certainly a more desirable GOP candidate in 2012 than Palin.


Just read a little about him, and I like what little I have read.
Will have to keep on eye on him.

One things for sure, Obama has got to go.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:44 pm 
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I loved the interaction between Buckley and Gore Vidal. So classy.

Johnson is anti-war, pro-immigration and pro-choice so while intelligent he is definitely not electable the way Republicans act.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:50 pm 
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cry of the banshee wrote:
Goat wrote:
What's the word on this Gary Johnson fellow? Seems to be a more sensible Ron Paul, from what I can glean, certainly a more desirable GOP candidate in 2012 than Palin.


Just read a little about him, and I like what little I have read.
Will have to keep on eye on him.

One things for sure, Obama has got to go.


I made the mistake of voting for him during my post-Bush malaise back when I was 18. While I'm not all that conservative with regards to governance, he has escalated if not intensified a great deal of Bushs practices. He doesn't have my vote this time, though I'm not quite sure what candidate gets my vote, I just might go socialist this year


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:56 pm 
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traptunderice wrote:
I loved the interaction between Buckley and Gore Vidal. So classy.

Johnson is anti-war, pro-immigration and pro-choice so while intelligent he is definitely not electable the way Republicans act.


Vidal had it coming to him, now didn't he?
Why do liberals always and I mean always resort to name calling in lieu of an argument? "Nazi! Racist! Squaaawkkk, whistle squaawk!"
You guys need some new material, seriously.
And when their targets respond in kind, they get all indignant.
Thats the problem with you leftys; you can dish it out, but ya can't take it.

As for Johnson's electability; don't be surprised.
The RINOs currently selling us out are being exposed more and more, and their days are numbered.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:00 pm 
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stevelovesmoonspell wrote:
cry of the banshee wrote:
Goat wrote:
What's the word on this Gary Johnson fellow? Seems to be a more sensible Ron Paul, from what I can glean, certainly a more desirable GOP candidate in 2012 than Palin.


Just read a little about him, and I like what little I have read.
Will have to keep on eye on him.

One things for sure, Obama has got to go.


I made the mistake of voting for him during my post-Bush malaise back when I was 18. While I'm not all that conservative with regards to governance, he has escalated if not intensified a great deal of Bushs practices. He doesn't have my vote this time, though I'm not quite sure what candidate gets my vote, I just might go socialist this year

Why would you go socialist?
Spending, among other things, is what is killing us.

It's too early to say who is the best candidate, though.

Hint: if the media is hell-bent on tearing them down, they are doing something right.
NEVER trust what the media tries to force feed you; it's all a bunch of lies, half truths and smoke and mirror parlor games.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:12 pm 
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cry of the banshee wrote:
Goat wrote:
What's the word on this Gary Johnson fellow? Seems to be a more sensible Ron Paul, from what I can glean, certainly a more desirable GOP candidate in 2012 than Palin.


Unfamiliar with him, to be honest.
But this country had better change course fast, or we are in big trouble.


In some ways yes, mainly in the area of our spending, as the billions each year is unsustainable. Fiscal conservatism however, is only as useful inasmuch as we cut everything for the time being, this includes the precious defense fund, barring corporate donations, and getting rid of the lobbyists (thanks Citizens united) that have smeared the system with their money.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:17 pm 
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stevelovesmoonspell wrote:
cry of the banshee wrote:
Goat wrote:
What's the word on this Gary Johnson fellow? Seems to be a more sensible Ron Paul, from what I can glean, certainly a more desirable GOP candidate in 2012 than Palin.


Unfamiliar with him, to be honest.
But this country had better change course fast, or we are in big trouble.


In some ways yes, mainly in the area of our spending, as the billions each year is unsustainable. Fiscal conservatism however, is only as useful inasmuch as we cut everything for the time being, this includes the precious defense fund, barring corporate donations, and getting rid of the lobbyists (thanks Citizens united) that have smeared the system with their money.


Oh we couild absolutely cut defense, as well as the big entitlements. And yes, lobbyists have to be a thing of the past.
The list is long and sure to leave some stranded, but we can't continue killing the many to save the few.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:23 pm 
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cry of the banshee wrote:
traptunderice wrote:
I loved the interaction between Buckley and Gore Vidal. So classy.

Johnson is anti-war, pro-immigration and pro-choice so while intelligent he is definitely not electable the way Republicans act.


Vidal had it coming to him, now didn't he?
Why do liberals always and I mean always resort to name calling in lieu of an argument? "Nazi! Racist! Squaaawkkk, whistle squaawk!"
You guys need some new material, seriously.
And when their targets respond in kind, they get all indignant.
Thats the problem with you leftys; you can dish it out, but ya can't take it.

As for Johnson's electability; don't be surprised.
The RINOs currently selling us out are being exposed more and more, and their days are numbered.


This post seems like a major generalization on your part, especially being the name calling on both sides of the ideological spectrum is rampant. I need not recite the numerous examples of some smarmy republican politician like Gingrich, Rubio, and others who have dirtied their hands mudslinging. Or the jokes that the right calls "pundits" regularly and quite collectively sticking their porcine snouts, calling anyone who believes opposite as they do: "libtard, wacko, and my personal favorite "commie". While the prototypical liberal granted places the race card, the right has a surefire propensity to wrongly refer to any an all left wing ideologies as "commie". Namely calling the kettle black


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:28 pm 
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cry of the banshee wrote:
stevelovesmoonspell wrote:
cry of the banshee wrote:
Goat wrote:
What's the word on this Gary Johnson fellow? Seems to be a more sensible Ron Paul, from what I can glean, certainly a more desirable GOP candidate in 2012 than Palin.


Unfamiliar with him, to be honest.
But this country had better change course fast, or we are in big trouble.


In some ways yes, mainly in the area of our spending, as the billions each year is unsustainable. Fiscal conservatism however, is only as useful inasmuch as we cut everything for the time being, this includes the precious defense fund, barring corporate donations, and getting rid of the lobbyists (thanks Citizens united) that have smeared the system with their money.


Oh we couild absolutely cut defense, as well as the big entitlements. And yes, lobbyists have to be a thing of the past.
The list is long and sure to leave some stranded, but we can't continue killing the many to save the few.


The socialist comment was sarcasm, though as of now the term "better candidate" is an issue that I've grappled with for the better part of a year and a half now. My inner progressive was murdered as the deficit was increased, yet the budget proposed by the supposed Paul "dynasty" is in my opinion laughable. Libertarians have to understand that we are running a country here, and that some level of spending has to be maintained in order to keep the ship afloat. Though granted entitlements needs to be gutted, and I'm sure whatever respective candidate arises will be either gormless enough to not tackle any of them, or be a bit too ideological *Ron Paul to castrate everything.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:29 pm 
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stevelovesmoonspell wrote:
cry of the banshee wrote:
traptunderice wrote:
I loved the interaction between Buckley and Gore Vidal. So classy.

Johnson is anti-war, pro-immigration and pro-choice so while intelligent he is definitely not electable the way Republicans act.


Vidal had it coming to him, now didn't he?
Why do liberals always and I mean always resort to name calling in lieu of an argument? "Nazi! Racist! Squaaawkkk, whistle squaawk!"
You guys need some new material, seriously.
And when their targets respond in kind, they get all indignant.
Thats the problem with you leftys; you can dish it out, but ya can't take it.

As for Johnson's electability; don't be surprised.
The RINOs currently selling us out are being exposed more and more, and their days are numbered.


This post seems like a major generalization on your part, especially being the name calling on both sides of the ideological spectrum is rampant. I need not recite the numerous examples of some smarmy republican politician like Gingrich, Rubio, and others who have dirtied their hands mudslinging. Or the jokes that the right calls "pundits" regularly and quite collectively sticking their porcine snouts, calling anyone who believes opposite as they do: "libtard, wacko, and my personal favorite "commie". While the prototypical liberal granted places the race card, the right has a surefire propensity to wrongly refer to any an all left wing ideologies as "commie". Namely calling the kettle black
true, but the left are waaay more liable to start with the "naziracisthomophobehatemongerer" bit than the right, at least in my experience, in lieu of a counter-point.
And I am really referring to those that should know better, the so-called professionals, not anonymous internet bloggers.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:32 pm 
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stevelovesmoonspell wrote:
cry of the banshee wrote:
stevelovesmoonspell wrote:
cry of the banshee wrote:
Goat wrote:
What's the word on this Gary Johnson fellow? Seems to be a more sensible Ron Paul, from what I can glean, certainly a more desirable GOP candidate in 2012 than Palin.


Unfamiliar with him, to be honest.
But this country had better change course fast, or we are in big trouble.


In some ways yes, mainly in the area of our spending, as the billions each year is unsustainable. Fiscal conservatism however, is only as useful inasmuch as we cut everything for the time being, this includes the precious defense fund, barring corporate donations, and getting rid of the lobbyists (thanks Citizens united) that have smeared the system with their money.


Oh we couild absolutely cut defense, as well as the big entitlements. And yes, lobbyists have to be a thing of the past.
The list is long and sure to leave some stranded, but we can't continue killing the many to save the few.


The socialist comment was sarcasm, though as of now the term "better candidate" is an issue that I've grappled with for the better part of a year and a half now. My inner progressive was murdered as the deficit was increased, yet the budget proposed by the supposed Paul "dynasty" is in my opinion laughable. Libertarians have to understand that we are running a country here, and that some level of spending has to be maintained in order to keep the ship afloat. Though granted entitlements needs to be gutted, and I'm sure whatever respective candidate arises will be either gormless enough to not tackle any of them, or be a bit too ideological *Ron Paul to castrate everything.


there are different flavors of "Libertarian". Minarchism is better than anarchism, of course.
We need some goverment, but it needs to be drastically back.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:39 pm 
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cry of the banshee wrote:
stevelovesmoonspell wrote:
cry of the banshee wrote:
stevelovesmoonspell wrote:
cry of the banshee wrote:
Goat wrote:
What's the word on this Gary Johnson fellow? Seems to be a more sensible Ron Paul, from what I can glean, certainly a more desirable GOP candidate in 2012 than Palin.


Unfamiliar with him, to be honest.
But this country had better change course fast, or we are in big trouble.


In some ways yes, mainly in the area of our spending, as the billions each year is unsustainable. Fiscal conservatism however, is only as useful inasmuch as we cut everything for the time being, this includes the precious defense fund, barring corporate donations, and getting rid of the lobbyists (thanks Citizens united) that have smeared the system with their money.


Oh we couild absolutely cut defense, as well as the big entitlements. And yes, lobbyists have to be a thing of the past.
The list is long and sure to leave some stranded, but we can't continue killing the many to save the few.


The socialist comment was sarcasm, though as of now the term "better candidate" is an issue that I've grappled with for the better part of a year and a half now. My inner progressive was murdered as the deficit was increased, yet the budget proposed by the supposed Paul "dynasty" is in my opinion laughable. Libertarians have to understand that we are running a country here, and that some level of spending has to be maintained in order to keep the ship afloat. Though granted entitlements needs to be gutted, and I'm sure whatever respective candidate arises will be either gormless enough to not tackle any of them, or be a bit too ideological *Ron Paul to castrate everything.


there are different flavors of "Libertarian". Minarchism is better than anarchism, of course.
We need some goverment, but it needs to be drastically back.


Minarchism is a philosophy I can agree with 100%, though the level of government as always is a tenuous and at best dividing factor among the individuals in favor of this philosophy.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:01 pm 
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Also, lulz @ the RCD, the party of former president of Tunisia Ben Ali, being kicked out of the Socialist Internationale. Dictatorship and socialism, divorcing after fourty years of happy marriage.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:34 am 
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Karmakosmonaut wrote:
Also, lulz @ the RCD, the party of former president of Tunisia Ben Ali, being kicked out of the Socialist Internationale. Dictatorship and socialism, divorcing after fourty years of happy marriage.
As if dictators really give a fuck as to how they run their economy and it is as if dictators don't exist in capitalist nations, i.e. China, if anything you could point to the masses as idiots for wanting a socialist nation and appointing a dictator who claims he is for the people, as Chavez has done and honestly is doing according to my opinion, but once a dictator is in place the party name is just a facade if that is how they want to do it. The point of a dictator is that the people have no input which really isn't socialist and obv prevents any critique of unjust treatment if and when it does develop. It's one thing to be critical of Marxism, do it on a theoretical or argumentative foundation but point to a man who took over in the face of religious extremism and economic collapse and actually did improve things but not by improving the conditions of the working class but by allowing foreign investment to usurp local economies and you are not even making an argument. You're no better than Glenn Beck shouting "commie" at anything he doesn't assent to. By pointing to examples in the world of how what you call "socialism" doesn't pan out, you really aren't saying anything because in no way you can prove that these people are socialists. Point to how they have actual socialist programs which have failed; I would welcome it. Then I'll point you to all the capitalist regimes which have failed in terms of inexcusable levels of repression and poverty and we'll see how they aren't all that different when people are corrupt as fuck but at least socialism seeks for the better of everyone when it gets derailed while capitalism gets derailed, people get fucked and it's par for the course; it was the goal all along.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:41 am 
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cry of the banshee wrote:
traptunderice wrote:
I loved the interaction between Buckley and Gore Vidal. So classy.

Johnson is anti-war, pro-immigration and pro-choice so while intelligent he is definitely not electable the way Republicans act.


Vidal had it coming to him, now didn't he?
Why do liberals always and I mean always resort to name calling in lieu of an argument? "Nazi! Racist! Squaaawkkk, whistle squaawk!"
You guys need some new material, seriously.
And when their targets respond in kind, they get all indignant.
Thats the problem with you leftys; you can dish it out, but ya can't take it.

As for Johnson's electability; don't be surprised.
The RINOs currently selling us out are being exposed more and more, and their days are numbered.
Vidal is kinda a loon but when someone starts attacking you for being a homosexual I would get pissed to. The problem with mainstream politics is the name calling and the democrats are unwilling to take the Republicans to task on a legitimate issue because they would have to expose themselves as hypocrites. I'm the actual Left and I'd like to think I can dish it out as much as I can take it. It's what causes me so many problems in this damn thread.

No matter how much Republicans are exposed when people are simply opposed to Obama without concern for the issues, it doesn't matter if it's a libertarian or a republican as long as it's not him. I just want people to honestly engage the issues but it digresses into a shitstorm of name calling where you can trick people into looking like idiots because they don't know what the fuck they are talking about (Old news but classic; the shit doesn't even need to be edited: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pilG7PCV448). People like Palin ffs; I honestly hope it's because they blindly hate Obama and it's not because they find some grain of value in her facade. The latter is what saddens me; the former I already expect.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:04 am 
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^^^

Take solace that Steve, I, and V have all called for cutting defense spending on this forum now.

And a Palin nomination would destroy the Republican party (if she loses, which she most likely would) or end the world according to the Mayan prophecy in the odd chance she won the general.

Either way, you win :lol: :)


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:28 am 
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Warmongering never bothered me with Republicans because it's either because the person is a dick which the Left has its Islamophobes like Frig as well or it's due to buying into media fear-mongering which has its effects which is why it is done. My problem is the unabashed commitment to capitalism by both democrats and republicans. Stick with it; don't hop ship to socialism or communism but do capitalism in a way that doesn't cost lives or fuck 5/6 of the world's population over into destitute poverty including the people in your own goddamn country, such as immigrants (legal and illegal) and the rural citizens who have no possibility for concrete well-paying jobs, not to mention a good education or even indoor plumbing in some cases.

Us, Marxists, may be nuts but the critique of capitalism we offer has it by the balls and either stop acting as if everything is peachy and learn to correct it or shut the fuck up and and let someone else attempt to fix it.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:38 am 
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America needs to succumb to the EU- but a new EU, a fully social democrat one based on the progressive ideals of Scandinavia and the like. Europe is the only way forward, it will be the basis for the future. The US is fucked, it will either fall to revolution or economic supplanting by the EU.

Sorry, I'm quite drunk and being a bit too idealistic. Part of it has to do with being recently officially inducted into the SNP. Independence! Europe! Social Democracy! YAAALDIII!

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I am not here, then, as the accused; I am here as the accuser of capitalism dripping with blood from head to foot.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:59 am 
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For a sec, I thought that was the SWP. Thought you were a swimmer.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:29 am 
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traptunderice wrote:
cry of the banshee wrote:
traptunderice wrote:
I loved the interaction between Buckley and Gore Vidal. So classy.

Johnson is anti-war, pro-immigration and pro-choice so while intelligent he is definitely not electable the way Republicans act.


Vidal had it coming to him, now didn't he?
Why do liberals always and I mean always resort to name calling in lieu of an argument? "Nazi! Racist! Squaaawkkk, whistle squaawk!"
You guys need some new material, seriously.
And when their targets respond in kind, they get all indignant.
Thats the problem with you leftys; you can dish it out, but ya can't take it.

As for Johnson's electability; don't be surprised.
The RINOs currently selling us out are being exposed more and more, and their days are numbered.
Vidal is kinda a loon but when someone starts attacking you for being a homosexual I would get pissed to. The problem with mainstream politics is the name calling and the democrats are unwilling to take the Republicans to task on a legitimate issue because they would have to expose themselves as hypocrites. I'm the actual Left and I'd like to think I can dish it out as much as I can take it. It's what causes me so many problems in this damn thread.

No matter how much Republicans are exposed when people are simply opposed to Obama without concern for the issues, it doesn't matter if it's a libertarian or a republican as long as it's not him. I just want people to honestly engage the issues but it digresses into a shitstorm of name calling where you can trick people into looking like idiots because they don't know what the fuck they are talking about (Old news but classic; the shit doesn't even need to be edited: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pilG7PCV448). People like Palin ffs; I honestly hope it's because they blindly hate Obama and it's not because they find some grain of value in her facade. The latter is what saddens me; the former I already expect.


Against Obama personally and not the issues?
Where have you been the past two years?

http://www.heritage.org/BudgetChartbook ... ng-revenue

I'd say those that you call "loons" have a damned legitimate concern.

Medicare, Medicaid, SS... all either bankrupt or soon to be, yet we are supposed to just trust a 2000 page law mandating federal health care (the government has SUCH a sterling track record when it comes to managing things, especially money, don't they?) that apparently was passed before it was even read, was passed behind closed doors (yet it affects every single person in this country), and which it, turns out, is unconstitutional.
But he knew that, right? Big high-stepping constitutional law prof, and all that...

issues?
Where to fucking begin...
how about the BP oil disaster and how long it took for Dear Leader to respond? And using it as an excuse to impose a moratorium on drilling, effectively eliminating countless jobs, ergo, a regional economy?
What about suing the state of Arizona over enforcing an EXISTING LAW that the feds refuse to enforce themselves?
How about the ridiculous nuclear arms treaty we just signed with Russia that allows them to build their arsenal while we reduce ours ? And basically shelves any further research towards missile defense? What about China? Oh, yeah...

Or...
what about the fact that unemployment has hovered at just about 10% (comapred to 7.6, the worst that we saw during Bush) with no end in sight? Factor in underemployment (at nearly 20%) and we have a disaster. And it shows no signs of abetting.
I thought the stimulus bill was going to assure that we would not see anything above 8% unemployment.
What about the biggest budget increase in our nations history, hence, world history, with, if we are to believe his SOTU, more to come (or go, as the case may be).
In fact his big contribution towards fixing the mess we are in is... to freeze spending at it's current level.
Brilliant! lets keep on doing what we are doing, yeah, thats it. Never mind that that's the very thing that is leading us towards the abyss. Is he fucking insane or just an idiot?
What about the fact that he obviously is in way over his head and has no idea what he is doing? Smooth baritone voice spouting bullshit will only take you so far.

Cash for clunkers - cost much much more than original estimate...
what a mess that was.

Brought on Van Jones (nutjob) as member of his cabinet, not to mention the other assorted nuts he associates with. Or used to, before it became politically inexpedient to do so.
What about nominating Sotomayer? Yeah, she seems fair and baggage free.
Proved race trumps all i.e., Gates fiasco, and arrogantly saying the police acted stupidly and calling it a teaching moment... not charging the NBP that stood at the polling booth with a club with voter intimidation...
AG Holder stating that point blank that hate crime laws do not apply to the protecion of white non-homosexuals (so much for equal protection under the law, isn't that somehwere in the constitution? I think it is.

lets see what else, what else...

oh yeah lobbyism continued despite his saying it would stop under his administration.. in fact they even made it more clandestine.
So, yeah, add lack of transparency to the ever growing list.

Cap and trade (basically another tax increase), the constant, constant constant campaigning, in fact he is campaigning even now (though his campaign guy says it isn't really set to begin full swing 'til next month)... how about at least trying to fix the mess we are in, Mr. President? Hmm?
Seems like he's got his priorities confused.
So much for "Hope and Change", I guess.

Proposed a Nationalize Student Lending with Pending Budget Bill (The Student Aid and Fiscal Responsibility Act)... yay, let's give the government more control over our lives!

Is for wealth redistrubtion. This is theft, pure and simple.

Called fellow citizens, members of this Union, "the enemy" while adressing Latino voters.

Allowing El Presidente, the failed leader of a country run by drug cartels and with a much harsher immigration policy to come on to our soil and criticize our laws and accuse us of violating the rights of citizens of another country for attempting to prosecute them for BREAKING OUR LAWS.
Indeed, this joke of a president actally applauded him and agreed with him.
failure to impose a fair trade policy in dealing with China.
Debt, debt, debt.

Shutting down voucher program in DC for poor school kids... hmm I wonder what kind of edjumacation Sasha and the other one (can't remember her name) are getting...

Gee who has thrived under this administration?
Why, it is the very people that head the banks (Citigroup, JP Morgan / Chase, Goldmann Sachs, etc etc)... the very ones that needed to be bailed out... and oh, look another strange coincidence; those guys are among the top contributors to the Obama campaign..

Oh and gas prices through the roof... but, wait I though that was Boosh's fault?

Did I mention no job creation?
Well he just appointed the CEO or whatever he is of GE to some soert of "job creation" committee. Oops; GE is one of the biggest perpetrators of outsourcing in the country, ahh, yes... that ought to go just swimmingly, ought'nt it?
Fuck me in half, I could go on and on (believe me, with an hour on google I could fill pages), but life is too damn short.
As bad as Bush was, this president has been a disaster.

But, yeah, it must be just because he is a black (well, half black) man, after all.

Excuse me while I vomit.


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