Metal Reviews

Alot of these moves on the part of Muslims can be directed back to things which the West shouldn't be a part of or should've backed out of, e.g., France/Algeria, Britain/the entire middle east. Whatever. Islam is a conquering force hellbent on destruction. I've never met a muslim with that attitude or an imam who preaches it. Must be different outside of the West

I think you're excluding a whole heap of other factors and your posts smack of "hating oneself" (i.e. you're a Westerner preaching against the West).

What about Soviet involvement? Or the declining Ottoman Turk empire in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Or the rise of Wahhabist ideology funded by Arab petro-dollars?

The Muslims themselves were expansionary right up to the 16th and 17th centuries when their empires went into terminal decline. Islam did not expand from Spain to Indonesia without meddling into the affairs of others. Usually this meddling involved a sharp sword.

So was their expansionism and meddling ok but not Western meddling?

Also are you promoting an isolationist, non-interventionist approach by the West?

No meddling also means no trade, no immigration and no contact.

After all some Muslims take as much offence to Baywatch as they do to American military involvement in the Middle East.

And all of the above things are interventions - trade after all involves diplomacy and can have massive cultural ramifications.

"Hating oneself" is not the same as being self-critical. I ascribe to certain tenets of justice which I don't see the West as upholding. I'm not self-loathing; I just have values. Am I supposed to love everything the West has done? This is a thread about politics, not about advances the West has brought about. If so, I'd be praising it rather than condemning it but the issue is is that we are rat bastards politically.

I don't discount Soviet involvement. The fall of the Ottoman Empire and rise of Wahhabi have definite influences on the situation in these countries. But I don't see how these two sources lead to the radical terror sects which have arisen. Maybe you just know more about the historical facts of the Ottomans or more about Wahhabi imams preach but people don't just jump at the chance of strapping bombs to themselves. Islam isn't naturally this bloodthirsty religion despite what it has been used for by opportune political leaders.

I don't see how Islam's expansionary practices are any different than anything done by Western countries during the 16th and 17th century. Are you saying America, England and France weren't colonial powers? Their expansion isn't alright but I fail to see how it is distinguished from the West's.

Oh, you don't want to know what I'm promoting. I don't know foresee why cultural differences couldn't be ironed out. If anything, we should be appalled by the objectification inherent in Baywatch as much as Muslims are appalled by the revealing one pieces. We could have common goals and use those as bridges to foster debate. They are intelligent, cultured people. They've internalized our values and critique themselves according to them, the beauty of cultural imperialism one might say, why should we not do the same? We have no reason to feel superior to them because we don't mind tits on the tube. Where you complain about honor killings, you should complain about hate crimes against immigrants (the Muslim ones especially) or homosexuals, if the Western ideals of liberalism are truly superior than the barbarous East.

Yet another reason the Labour party should be annihilated. Not that Cameron's Tories aren't selling weapons to oppressive regimes as I type, of course, but at least Dave has the sense to avoid posing for pics like this one:



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ddafi.html

He looks like leatherface. Such a creepy fuck.

Daily Mail, Zad? Seriously?

I don't see the problem with quoting them, considering all the article's doing is quoting Ed Davey from a conference speech.

Ever be wary of quote-mining.

Plenty of other sources available. I mean, are you seriously implying that the Fail is making up Labour's ties with Libya? That that pic of Pa Broon and Gaddafi is photoshopped?

Yes people who hijack planes and flies those said planes into buildings to kill a whole bunch of people to make a point are very cultured give me a fucking break

People who shop at Wal-mart and spend 16 hours of their day watching Sportscenter are the epitome of high class. Caricatures are great sources of generalizations, fuck man. When you express ideas, do you expect people to respect the thought process that went into their formulation? I find that hard to imagine.

Our culture is far from genital mutilations, sharia law, ghastly human rights records, and even further from being the retrogressive shithole that is the current middle east. At the very worst we're far too consumer based, but even that is a far cry from the atrocities that occur on a daily basis in the middle east. I know you are trying to be the 00ber tolerant individual, but the worst of these people want to slit your throat and coerce you into their religion, and the other "moderate" muslims who maintain the majority refuse to police their own and let their image be ruined by these crazies. If you want to decry your countrymen so much Trapt, why not move to Saudi Arabia and see how long you last with that 00ber utilitarian bullshit.

Genital mutilation is generally an African thing rather than an Islam kinda thing. Sharia law is what it is given our influence in creating these fundamentalist countries. We export our ghastly human rights records to other countries and are just a lot better at keeping it on the down low. Abu Ghraib was an isolated incident?

Do you people not actually know a Muslim in real life? That would explain a lot as to why you think they are all either bloodthirsty or condoning of the bloodthirst.

Saudia Arabia equal uber utilitarian? LOL. Greatest number, what! Not to mention the fact that I was making a point about culture. Need I define that? Culture =/= society or maybe I should have realized that metalstorm probably uses those interchangeably.

The idea that more than one type of Muslim exists is clearly a difficult one for some people to process. Observe -

- some Americans live in the hills and eat passers-by. These are very bad people. Not all Americans are like this.

- some Muslims oppress women and hurt the innocents. These are very bad people. Not all Muslims are like this.

Let's face it Steve, America has a pretty ghastly human rights record, Trail of Tears, nuclear testing, torture and rendition. The current protest movements in Islamic countries like Libya and Iran are this moderate, democratic majority that you blame for everything, and decent human beings would support them in their fight against totalitarianism instead of spouting racist tropes. Who's denying that 9/11 happened? No-one.

Stop being sane, fag.

Perhaps you hippies should go and live in Pakistan for a year or so.

Edit: as women.

Go and live in Israel as a Palestinian!

This could go all night.

Awesome post.

I love it when lefties and hippies talk stuff about these countries about how most people are good and there's "some rotten apples".

It's like people talk about all Germans or Soviets not being bad in WWII.

Yet history shows that many Germans happily used slave labour for their gains and that many German soldiers happily participated in warcrimes.

At the same time, Russian soldiers raped anyone they could be they Russian, German, Polish etc. They often murdered and quite often looted.

So we can assume that a lot of people committed some really nasty acts of their own volition.


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Also if anyone paid attention to the posters and placcards carried by Egyptian (and other Arab protestors). Quite often they had anti-Western remarks when they were in English and I saw a few of
Mubarak in an Israeli Star of David.

Clearly there's some anti-semitism there.

What incredible logic! Some did, therefore most probably did. That's deep shitting thought, right there. And is it any surprise that there are some anti-west placards after the many years of western governments propping up dictators? And, yet again, anti-Israel is not anti-Semitic.