Metal Reviews

Sorry, V, I tried to go with a different line of argument then the standard Marxist drivel I guess. Have you ever read the Founding Fathers' letters and correspondence? From that and from reading the sources which they pulled from, you'll see that what they meant isn't how it has turned out. They published political documents, not philosophical treatises and they didn't lay out all the distinctions so the Constitution but if you're interested and you should be, I loved reading this kinda stuff, learning more about what they expected of a society you see the Constitution and what it says in a different light then how Ron Paul or Boehner tout it as this defense of right wing politics. I'm not saying they advocated redistribution. However, what they defined as property would radically alter what we deem as legitimate forms of accumulation. If the form is illegitimate then I don't know if the people are just committing moral wrongs or if retributive justice should be sought and that's where the Constitution lacks and you're right. But what I'm saying isn't pinko commie shit but American shit. Never once did I say the workers should overthrow the bastards.

But about answering questions:
Are we just going to agree to disagree about concrete facts?

We can, and do, agree to disagree.
I'm by no means an expert on the Constitution, but I do know that the basic pillars of our nation are founded upon individual freedom, property rights and the inalienable right of the pursuit of happiness, among other things.
If a person so wishes to be filthy stinking rich and goes about doing so in a perfectly legal manner, it is his right to be greedy.
Just as it is the same right shared by everyone else that so desires.
Morality is not even part of the equation here, and has no place in legislation, anyway.

No point in chasing our tail on the subject, at any rate.

Right, I missed this.
I think that a flat rate, straight across the board, tax is the only fair method.
Everybody pays the exact same percentage of their wealth.
And whatever the revenue is, that is the budget the government has to work with.

On a completely unrelated note, I've recently learned that the best way to show your more hard leaning leftist friends to appreciate the right to bear arms is to take them shooting. One of them was actually a natural with my M1 Carbine and he pounded some cans and bottles into scrap from quite a distance.

I must admit, I think guns are horrific things. But if someone were to take me shooting, I just know that I'd love it.

My strongly held belief is: the progressive tax rate is not "fair" in a dog-eat-dog sense, but more equitable to society as whole, for the reasons outlined above: taxes should not cut into the acquisition of the necessities of life nor should they limit you to merely the necessities of life.

The only thing horrific is the mindset used to employ them in dealing death by homicidal governments. They can be used for defense of ones family, hunting, or just plain having fun, I don't see anything inherently evil about them.

The only thing horrific is the mindset used to employ them in dealing death by homicidal governments. They can be used for defense of ones family, hunting, or just plain having fun, I don't see anything inherently evil about them.

100% agree.

There's a practical component too. Simple tax systems are easier for business and individuals to work with, less costly to implement and are generally more effective at capturing revenue than complicated ones.

The tax system in Australia has become unmanageable given how complex it has become to take into account every possible manner of social good and ill.

Here's how the tax system works for an individual

For every 0-6000 of income you pay 0% on the dollar
Between $6,001 and $35,000, you pay 15% tax on every extra dollar earned.
Between $35,001 and $80,000 it's 30% for every extra dollar
Between $80,001 and $180,000 it's 38% for every extra dollar
Over $180,000 it's 45% of every extra dollar

Then there's the following add-ons:
Medicare Levy: 1.0% if you earn over set amount
Extra Medicare Levy: 1.0% extra if you don't have private health cover.

These are offset by Family Tax Rebates and Private Health Cover rebates.

Figures don't include deducations for earning an income.

Then you regularly pay the following taxes:

Goods and Services Tax (VAT): 10%
Excise tax: Applicable to cigarettes, alcohol, fuel (varies)
Stamp Duty: ad hoc and slapped on many items including taxes.

Then there's corporate taxes.

A report about 5 years ago stated that even accountants don't fully understand the tax system.

It's a system so full of holes that it's easy to get away from paying anything if you have a good accountant.

It's complexity is a big hinderance to business.

Ugh so true. 10% of my income is three months rent. 10% for a millionaire is what? He buys a Lexus rather than a Bentley?

I enjoy shooting guns but that doesn't make them necessary for an individual to own. I'm sure that I would really dig getting hopped up on heroin while I was in the act just as your friends were really into shooting that gun that moment. However, when you come down or when the gun discharges while being cleaned then it's not as cool.

The problem is when one's pursuit of happiness through the accumulation of wealth encroachs on an other's, i.e., there is only so much money to be had and if there are nine millionaires in a ten million dollar society, the rest of that society is going to be fucked.

This is false.
Stop spreading propaganda, or demonstrate how it is true.
How is there "only so much money to be had"?
How does one seeking his fortune "encroach" upon anybody elses similar ambitions?
You see nothing but victims, in need of the mommy / state to provide for them, and frankly that mindset is sickening.

You really just don't get it, do you?
What part of the fact that IT'S THEIR FUCKING MONEY don't you get?

Guns aren't fucking toys; they serve a purpose.
I suppose you are against the right to bear arms, as well.

Agreed!

It also displays a complete lack of understanding of even rudimentary economics.

Trapped: you live too much in theory land and not enough in the real world.

Theories are meaningless, especially ones that require massive assumptions to make them work.

Truth is that in the West and developed parts of Asia the current system and its variantshas created an excellent standard of living that is unheard of in history. Modifications of the system are improving lives in Asia, Africa and Latin America.

Communism failed miserably.


By the way the current predominantly capitalist society has enabled Australia to create a very comfortable existence for the poor.

This is the standard Government provided house type in Australia. As you can tell, being unemployed or on social benefits in Australia nets you the type of house that people in poorer parts of the world would regard as luxurious:



This one has been been privatised. Government sold a lot of them off for next to nothing to people living in them - in two cases AUD$7,000 and AUD$12,000. You cannot buy a decent second hand car for that amount.

My parents brought one for AUD$56,000 when the standard going rate for a similar house was AUD$150,000 (this is going back 10 years).


In fact what the Australian social welfare system has done is created institutionalised welfare dependency on a grand scale.

I've known entire families where no-one has worked for three or four generations due to government welfare programs being so good.

I've known other families where people have stopped working because social benefits are worth more than getting paid a salary (after taxes).

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookou ... ot-so-much

The long-term 'recovery' has me very concerned. Part-time work continues to gain on full-time employment. Productivity is rising but wages are stagnant. And state governments across the country are crushing their unions.

Business seems to be doing quite fine vis-a-vis labor

I don't see anything inherently wrong with being wealthy, the typical stereotype on the left is that millionaires are all sitting on their money, "not paying their fair share", or are just plain living in some affluent sphere afar off from current affairs. I don't wish them any malice at least on my part, a lot of the wealthy do wonderful things with their money, Trapts just rehashing typical marxist platforms which have been debunked over and over. I can agree with him on being against multinational corporations, but benevolent individuals with deep pockets have done society and its respective causes a lot of good

The whole union business is repulsive. Been trying to get out and participate in protests the last few weeks. A lot of people are responding to it and getting out there but Ohio's legislature has tended to ignore it. They did delay the vote due to a 25,000 person demonstration but they still voted to pass it the next day.

@dead1 and steve.

Exactly.