Metal Reviews

haha, Krugman is a left-wing hack, so I'll take anything he says with a huge grain of salt.

Oh and the whole "racist" canard is the weakest ad hominem in the book. It literally has lost any meaning due to it's overuse.
Sorry, that bullshit only works on feeble minded cowards, peddle that shit somewhere else.

Keynesian economics is pretty invalid in today's current situation to be honest. Even then it is only a way of averting crises.

I'm V, I don't give a fuck about racism because I ignore history.

I would never be that reductive. They overthrew their french oppressors, only to be locked in another system of domination founded on the social relations established under french colonial rule. On top of that Haiti paid over $17 billion dollars to France in reparations. Surely, none of these facts have anything to do with the current situation of Haiti and surely do not arise out of Western involvement.

Africa? Africa had several prosperous feudal societies that you simply refuse to acknowledge, V, before Western slave traders stripped their continent of 10 million men and women to be bought and sold. Societies founded on non-coercive relations, oh my!

Show some proof that SB 1070 is based on racism and not other factors, or close your lie spewing mouth.
Is the federal immigration law racist, as well? How about every other immigration policy in the world? They racist? Or does that only apply to the country that you hate so much?

As for the wonderful magical continent of Africa:
Dumbass, those slaves were ALREADY ENSLAVED BY RIVAL TRIBES PRIOR TO THE SLAVE TRADE... are you fucking retarded?
And they still to this day practice it themselves. And commit genocide... are you seriously suggesting that this is a recent phenomona in Africa and the fault of the evil white man? If so your are either a liar or an idiot.


You always and I mean always only give half the story.
Like I said, this isn't one of your limp noodle brained classes ripe for indoctrination. You're a hack, and nothing more than a parrot spouting marxist garbage without a shred of ability to think on your own.

You have the mind of a slow child, just like all leftists. Always wanting this and that, without worrying one whit about how it is going to be paid for... just like a child depending on mommy and daddy. that's why so many "young people" are leftists... they are still in dependence mode.

You wanna talk about history? How about the history of your beloved marxism and its manifestation in Communism.

As for Haiti, etc... internal government corruption seems to be their biggest problem... the french were driven out, what, 200 years ago?
The west has given Haiti billions in aid, so your little narrative of how the west oppresses them is nonsense, as usual.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_aid_to_Haiti

You both should cool off for a bit, I think. At least we are agreed on the bankruptcy of Keynesian thinking today...and the need to cut defense.

Asserting that immigration law is racist is oversimplification. Anti-immigration feeling in this country has a number of factors, one of which, and a minor one I think, is a racial factor. Unrestrained immigration has a perception of overburdening the nation's social systems, there is a drug violence concern on the border, and I think some of us are not racist but linguisticist, or whatever term you prefer. I care not what race/culture populates the US (well I am not going to embrace salsa dancing anytime soon), as long as long as it assimilates English and forgets its old tongue in two generations like the Italian/German/Polish immigrants of before. Equating the Hispanic immigration to these earlier waves conveniently forgets a few stark differences. Hispanic immigrants have less reason to assimilate than past immigrants, and thus, particularly in the Southwest, you have a sort of Tex/Mex society emerging. History shows (The Piedmont Principle) that this will eventually destabilize the country at large.

I never said SB1070 was racist. I fucking posted an article on how it has been constructed with private companies in the rooms, lobbying for it. Yes, SB1070 relies on racism, if my friend Jose went to Arizona and didn't have his wallet on him wouldn't he be fucked for simply having parents from Mexico?

The actual accounts of those "slaves" made them more like serfs than the slaves we have here. Only a 100 years before this, nearly every European was a serf, under similar conditions to those "slaves" in Africa.

The French were driven out and required them to pay reparations for kicking them out! The next 200 years they gave France 17 billion dollars. You don't see the cause for all that need that they have been given. Rather than investing in their own infrastructure, they have been paying France and then when they are broke and disaster strikes the West sweeps in and acts like it is bailing them out.

Let's do talk about Marxism and how it has pushed for 8 hour work days, the elimination of child labor in the West (and seeking it in the rest of the world), fought for women's rights, civil rights, worker's rights, the list goes on. Examples can be provided.

1:
Your friend Jose would only be fucked if he did something to get pulled over for and if he is here illegally. If he is a citizen, his name and SS are in the system, so, no; nice try though.

As for your claim that you never said "SB1070 was racist"... what context was your flippant remark made in then? What have we been discussing?

2:
Slave, serf... bullshit.
they were captured and were the property of the tribal chieftan who traded them. Semantics and cheap parlor games aside, they were property taken from their own tribes and families by other tribes for labor purposes.

3:
Those reparations were were began in 1825 and paid off in full 100 years later, for fucks sake, and came up to 90 million gold francs (not 20 billion). Lets see.. that is almost 100 years ago.
They have NOT been paying that ever since France got the boot, it was paid a long time ago.
How much has the west poured into Haiti since then?

4:
Again with the cherry-picking...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_ ... of_victims

That's not even mentioning the human rights violations and horrible impact on the economies of the communist satellite countries and their living conditions. Eastern Europe, N. Vietnam, Cuba, N. Korea, among others... all hellholes, all communist, or ex-communist.

Oh I know what your response will be: don't blame communism for the actions of it's enforcers... but isn't that what you do when whining about the evils of capitalism?

edit reason: data correction.

Stephen Haper's attack ads are criticizing Michael Ignatieff for being a Harvard professor

lol

I'm cooled down enough, thank you.
I am not even going to attempt being friendly to the fool... he continuously posts dishonest propagnda that tells only a small part of the story, and has the nerve to come off all high-toned about it.

His vacuum-head classmates may fall for that leftist parrot bullshit, but I won't.

My flippant remark is that you just don't act as if racism exists ever simply because people "overuse" it. That's like saying the holocaust didn't happen because people overuse the word genocide to label every single goddamn mass amount of deaths.

The call of racism comes up when it's unclear of why people can be pulled over. I'll concede I don't know how the bill is worded exactly in order to make my point but I think their is a crucial ambiguity to it. There is something really suspect about the fact that people can be subjected to cop interrogation unnecessarily because they are Hispanic where I would never be asked for my identification. I think it has something to do with the need for identification to usually be required for all stops but not necessarily so white people driving without a license are fine and may not be asked for it but if you're Latino or even just darker skinned of any variety then you can get asked.

No. They worked the someone else's land and were able to live doing so despite a hefty cut given to the person on top...as what happened in Europe for centuries. Fine, it's slavery whatever, ignore accounts. It still was never as cruel or heinous as the slavery in America which sought to reduce blacks to subhuman status in order to profit off of them and wasn't predicated on them being lesser than their owners because of their skin color but simply because they had the position they had. A position they could escape if they escaped the person on top, however, in America, once escaped they were still black and hence at the level of trash.

People commonly point to African serfdom/slavery but the "slaves" could still own property, get married, own their own slaves, and marry into their owner's family.

The 20 billion is in terms of contemporary inflation when their was a petition in the French parliament to repay Haiti back. They paid it over like some 50 years.

That's fine whatever. When Marxism is distorted and misread to justify heinous actions, we can bash it. How can Marxism be judged for its being distorted, while capitalism running smoothly and how it does creates oppression, exploitation and death? Not in the cool theoretical Marxist alienation which I taught in class but the really evil heinous stuff like the colonial subjugation of the East in places like India, oh and basically everywhere not in Europe or North America. When people try to resist the liberal-democratic capitalist colonial force in their country, they are met with violence. I wonder why no one calculates all those deaths, possibly because it's so widespread and our lives are predicated on these facts which we sweep under the rug. I enjoy being in the first world but I don't act like we haven't fucked the world over in order to live like this.

I like how you call cherry picking some of the greatest social movements of the last century, which can be related back to Marxism. Enough circles for you, yet?

It's the most overused attempt at ad hominen there is, and it won't fly here.
Don't act coy, you know damn well what I meant by it.



Uhh, usually when they are in some form of violation; I'm as white as it gets, but I have been pulled over for minor infractions, had to pay the fine, etc... and *SHOCK!* I had to show my drivers license... the cruelty!



Source to back that up? I'm not going to take your word for it, sorry. But, again, I'm calling bullshit on that.




This is 100% dyed in the wool bullshit, and you fucking know it. White people don't get asked for ID when they are stopped?
Really? More dishonesty, try telling the truth for a change.

The whole slavery can of worms really isn't germaine to the discussion, so I'll let it go, but nice sugarcoat, there.



Exactly. So it was paid off before the start of the 20th century, a long time ago... and what about the many billions of aid since then?
No comment?



Really? I'd say it creates wealth, products / services and jobs, you know those things corporations are in the business of?
Examples of capitalism causing death on the scale of communism, please?




Examples, or stfu.
Colonialism =/= capitalism, although they sometimes go hand in hand.
What about the infrastructure left behind by the colonists?
India is coming along nicely, thanks.

Again, you pretend that all those places "basically everywhere not in Europe or North America" were flourishing before colonialism; they weren't. More half truth propaganda.



Oh you mean like in Hungary, Czechoslovakia, E. Germany, China, Russia, and so on? Or in those wonderful meccas of democracy in Latin America, Africa and the Middle East?
oh, wait...



Good question; the fact that nobody has (I guess) is telling, though... it's not as if their aren't groups that would love to pin atrocities on that evil of all evils, capitalism, if they could... as I know you are well aware.




Then where is the data? Shouldn't be too hard to dig up, it being all pervasive.



Sounds like hypocrisy to me... who have you personally fucked over? I never fucked anyone over. I don't have any power, and 99% of the West (yeah, I know, evil) doesn't, either.
If you feel so damn bad about it, put your money where your mouth is and haul ass outta here; I'm sure any one of those remaining Marxist paradise countries would be glad to have you... no ones stopping you, you know.
Communism has no place in the US, period. It is a FREE MARKET / CAPITALIST society, you can cry and moan about the past and how evil this country is all you want, but that's how it is here and every day that you stay here is another black mark of hypocrisy on your record.




Greatest? maybe in terms of atrocity and abject failure... really is this a joke?

I'm done wasting time on you.

Yes. Considering there essentially was no immigration law until I believe the 1930's. Gee, I wonder what made them decide to implement a system where you had to do more than show up?

Yes. It is 100% racist for it to be okay in 1901 for countless Italian, Irish, et al citizens to show up and automatically have the right to live here and in 2001 it is illegal for what is predominantly Mexicans and other "undesirables" to do so. Yes I am fully aware that Jews, Italians and Irish had a hell of a time making their way here early on.

My instinct is that it took a basic amount of wealth or connections to get here 100 years ago, even if you had to sell everything, you at least had something. And now that this is not necessarily the case, we want to lock up the borders.

The bottom line is that vested interests do not want to see citizenship for certain groups that are willing to work cheap as illegal immigrants.

The bill is pretty cut and dry. They want to make it a crime you can be imprisoned for to be an illegal immigrant, which is not federal law whatsoever. Some degree of fraudulent paperwork has to exist for there to be a federal crime, if i'm not mistaken. Courtesy of the Prison lobby. What a dream come true for them. They can basically take any undocumented alien and put them in a labor camp if they choose, essentially reestablishing slavery in the USA.

Contrary to popular belief slavery was not based on race alone. It was based on religion as well. Any non Christian could be determined as property, which is why you don't see too many A. Indians around. They chose to fight than become slaves. Interestingly enough, my family were both Indians and Slave Traders...that must have went over well in the late 1800's in the deep south.

You and Trapt are so damn narrow minded when it comes to things such as racism and social viewpoints it's not even funny

But at least Trapt's narrow minded viewpoints are contributed to his ignorant liberal headed mentality what's your frickin excuse?

V, have you been pulled over before and not been asked for your driver's license? I have. I've been pulled over seven times in the five years I've had my license. Two times, the first time I was and the second to last time, they simply stopped me, corrected me and sent me on my way. In Arizona, for every darker skinned person that won't ever happen because they now have to provide evidence they are a citizen insofar as they may possibly be an alien. The law doesn't state that everyone must be ID-ed but that the officer will "determine a person's immigration status if there is reasonable suspicion that the person is an illegal alien...where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the Unite States" (Section 2 of 1070). How does the officer do that without asking everyone? But that isn't what they have mandated. They have mandated racial profiling due to suspicion.

Haiti paid reparations which France didn't deserve. Then Haiti needs money and is given aid. How do you think that is fair? They gave France $20 billion. France hasn't given them $20 billion. We act like it is a big deal that we have given them like $2 billion something. It isn't equal.

The Late Victorian Holocaust, as documented by Mike Davis, "tens of millions of Indians, Africans, Chinese, Brazilians, Koreans and Russians and others who died as a result of entirely preventable famine, drought and disease in the late nineteenth century" due to soaring grain prices and a refusal of those in power to influence markets to make the prices affordable. The dogma of free markets let these people die. The British Raj opted for laissez faire policies rather than the control of prices after droughts leading prices to skyrocket and left 6 to 10 million people dead over two years and one to ten million dead a different span of two years.

Indian farmers, right now, are committing suicide because Monsanto has undermined their local crops and has resulted in mass agricultural underproduction due to the selling of seeds unfit for the environment.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldne ... crops.html

Slavery had nothing to do with the creation of profits and the selling of goods like cotton on a market did it?

Three examples, with the first containing several historical/geographical regions affected, good enough?
You should recognize what I was referring to. Marxism has had a tremendous influence the last 100 years on the advancement of civil rights, women's rights and worker's rights. Those are the greatest social movements of the last century. I'm not talking about the fucking USSR but the workers who locked themselves in the Flint, Michigan Ford plant and the women who took to the streets to have access to birth control.

Well, not everyone agrees with Davis, as I'm sure you will be stunned to find out -
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/article675882.ece



No arguments re Monsanto, however - suing farmers when seeds are blown onto their fields, selling low then upping the price when their fields will only grow GM grain... corporations backed by state power = fascism, no doubt about it.

It's a shame these arguments always turn into shouting matches about racism, by the by. We nearly had an interesting discussion about Keynesian economics a page or two back.

Yeah, because having my own opinion is "narrowminded."

If I don't want catholic priests fucking children, narrowminded, I guess. Maybe I should accept their cultural rituals. Why not? local, state and federal authorities seem to have taken this approach.

No. I don't think it is "narrowminded" for things to be equal when it comes to immigration. It's a digital answer, yes or no. Not If... That "If" equals racism under the guise of complexity and nuiance that does not exist. Funny, I didn't think it needed to be more complex than a human being wanting an opportunity (that is a bullshit pipe dream, but they are free to try)

I'm FAR from narrowminded. I listen to Italian Catholic bands preach on about moral lessons about the pitfalls of living forever, how faith will resolve everything, ect and I am a Satanist (Atheist with bells and whistles for fun). Get the fuck out with that argument. I am more than willing to accept someone's ideas, but when they clash with my own, I don't have to accept them as being anything but unpalatable diversions. I like conspiracy theories too, but I throw about 75% of the bullshit out on that one too. 15% of the remainder is bullshit, but entertaining enough to pad out the 10% that is true.

A Brit's approval: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2001/ja ... oks.famine

Davis didn't invent the fact that there were famines. The famines are historical facts. Amartya Sen, a liberal philosopher yet critical of the West, corroborates the facts as do history books ffs

What the article says in no way contradicts the fact that between 1876-8 and 1899-1900 were two devastating famines caused by inflation of prices due to stunted supply and the prices weren't capped by the colonial govt. Insofar as it was more lucrative to ship the grain elsewhere then to sell it to the starving Indians, many Indians starved. The article emphasizes overall trends rather than these two instances which may be fine to some but I think it is tremendously narrow-minded to not take into account these two instance of heinous behavior.

Why Davis uses the phrase Holocaust, albeit so fucking dramatic and probably an overstatement, is that this wasn't occurring just in India but in czarist Russia, Africa, Korea, South America and China, where colonial govts or repressive states simply let people starve rather than cap prices. So whitewash Britain involved in India's affairs but you still have the awful famines in Russia, for example, which were precursors to the Russian Revolution. One czar was assassinated, several rebellions were quashed and ultimately the entire government was overthrown and a large portion of the populace was incited to join with Lenin and the Soviets to overthrow the czar.

As for Monsanto, you can call it fascism but what is Monsanto doing but being a fucking badass on the free market. They are coercive but they in no way violate any capitalist principles. Maybe liberal principles of the separation of business and government but they do capitalism and they do it well in my book.

The whole point of laissez-faire is the absense of the state, not the state weighing in heavily on the corporation's side. Corporatism =! liberalism.

Anyone else read that as "Hitler did the right thing: since might is right!"

Sorry, I don't think someone has the right to copyright DNA that is naturally occurring and telling everyone who can't afford it to just fucking die.

Free markets my ass. The gov subsidizes this bullshit and makes sure they pay close to no taxes on the earnings. Bullshit reverse socialism. Tax the poor and pay the rich.

Do you want to know why a cheeseburger costs less than a head of lettuce? When you get to pay pennies on the dollar because the grain to feed the cows and make buns is free, you have an excellent business model. That would be like me building amps with unlimited free circuits, components, transformers, silicon and the robotic manufacturing to put it all together. I would be able to immediately and permanently put Sony, et al. out of business if I just have to pay someone the minimum wage to screw the board into the chassis and put the damn thing in a box. Yeah, free markets. More like you pay $2.00 for the burger no matter if you buy any or not, through taxes, then they slap the $1 on you as a convenience charge at the door.

Free market is an illusion anyway. As for Monsanto, Trapt, have you seen Food Inc?

I actually have. I really enjoyed it. Guys, I had my tongue in my cheek a little when I was talking about Monsanto. I thought maybe the "doing it well" being causing a bunch of Indian farmers to commit suicide might show that. I don't really know how someone defends Monsanto but I was doing a little spiel of what it might look like, no?