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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 6:22 pm 
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Einherjar

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Adveser wrote:
From the NY Times? Are you serious?

Bottom line is that the media and government takes the position every single one is completely untrue, even when it is admitted after the fact. Despite this hardline stand, the government has prosecuted people for conspiracy...they sure as hell believe conspiracies can be true.

Let's not confuse the people that make up 90% of their theories on baseless evidence that fits the mold and people that have strong opinions because they did far more research than the NY Times would even consider doing.

Seriously, debating the reality of physical paperwork that has been published, known and verified as fact is is propaganda at best.


NY Times is a respectable news source...a great one, even.

Also, I tend to agree with you on some things. US Government has done some fucked up shit and covered it up. I don't believe anything from the Warren Commission. Just an interesting piece about the dynamics of conspiracy theories and the fact that people often don't let them go when they're proven incorrect.


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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 6:34 pm 
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Einherjar

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That's respectable.

There is only one conspiracy theory: A Cabal of Bankers, Corporate Interests, Military Interests, Religious figures, Politicians and Royalty together own the media and control the government. Every single time a "conspiracy theory" is discussed it is part of the million-part machine.

I'm tired. That's all I wanna type for now.

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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 6:47 pm 
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Einherjar
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 12:04 am 
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Ist Krieg
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Quote:
“You never raise taxes when the economy’s going up, because you’ll cause it to go down. You never raise taxes when the economy’s going like this [he makes a flat gesture, implying stability], because you’ll cause it to go down. And you certainly never raise taxes when the economy’s going down, because you’ll accelerate the decline. Other than that…you’re open to it.”
Via an ALEC workshop.

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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 3:54 pm 
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Ist Krieg
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiHuiDD_oTk

I seriously do not see how anyone can still seriously support FPTP.

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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 4:11 pm 
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Ist Krieg
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FrigidSymphony wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiHuiDD_oTk

I seriously do not see how anyone can still seriously support FPTP.
How cute!

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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 4:18 pm 
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Destroyer ov Spambots
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FrigidSymphony wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiHuiDD_oTk

I seriously do not see how anyone can still seriously support FPTP.


I like this AV system. Here, in order to try to compensate FPTP drawbacks, there are 2 rounds. Generally, the two parties/candidates with the higher share of votes qualify for a second round taking place one or two weeks later.

I like this AV system better though. 1) it is more cost effective, 2) it allows a clear and indisputable instant picture of what the population fucking wants. Only downside : it would confuse some people (namely, old and stupid people).

What are the tendencies right now ? Does AV stand a chance ?


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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 4:25 pm 
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Ist Krieg
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I'm so jealous of European voting systems. We're stuck in a two party system with really no talk whatsoever of getting out of it. Paul and Nader need to join forces and start this action.

It's nice how the AV system gets it all done in one day. Bruce, is the turnout for the two elections usually the same or does it drop off on the second election or do people not care about the first?

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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 4:43 pm 
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Destroyer ov Spambots
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traptunderice wrote:
I'm so jealous of European voting systems. We're stuck in a two party system with really no talk whatsoever of getting out of it. Paul and Nader need to join forces and start this action.

It's nice how the AV system gets it all done in one day. Bruce, is the turnout for the two elections usually the same or does it drop off on the second election or do people not care about the first?


Here's a graph (at the bottom of the page) of turnouts of every Presidential elections of French 5th Republic : http://www.france-politique.fr/election ... ielles.htm
You can see turnouts are pretty much the same from a round to another. The second one is a tad superior, because hey, it's money time.

It's good to have several candidates (i.e. different distinct projects for the country), but in France this is going way too far. For example, in 2002 and 2007, there were THREE trotskist candidates + a "regular" communist candidate. Utter silliness, whether you're a commie or not. Join forces, dummies !


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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 6:08 pm 
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Ist Krieg
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wtf at Canada giving Stephen Harper a majority. Not cool, dudes.

I guess they did a great job of making Michael Ignatieff's academic positions at Cambridge, Oxford, and Harvard look like a bad thing.


Last edited by noodles on Tue May 03, 2011 6:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 6:08 pm 
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Einherjar
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Bruce_Bitenfils wrote:
It's good to have several candidates (i.e. different distinct projects for the country), but in France this is going way too far. For example, in 2002 and 2007, there were THREE trotskist candidates + a "regular" communist candidate. Utter silliness, whether you're a commie or not. Join forces, dummies !

What else would you expect from an ideology with so many internal inconsistencies.

To me, all party democracies are an evil. Doesn't matter much if you have two large ones as in the US, or more, as in most European countries.


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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 6:13 pm 
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Destroyer ov Spambots
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Karmakosmonaut wrote:
To me, all party democracies are an evil. Doesn't matter much if you have two large ones as in the US, or more, as in most European countries.


Interesting, what system do you wish to have instead ? (honest question)


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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 6:32 pm 
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Einherjar
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A system of many small parties forming broader coalitions where needed, with seats awarded on a vote percentage basis to these same coalitions, per coalition.

At least, that would tackle some of Belgium's democratic problems: big, unwieldy parties where faceless goons get perhaps a few hundred preferred votes and end up being placeholders to people high-up, the latter not taking up their governmental seat anyway because of the several governmental organs overlapping one another in this monstrosity of a country.

Also, trade unions tied to the big political parties = political immobilism for the win.


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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 7:28 pm 
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Destroyer ov Spambots
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Karmakosmonaut wrote:
A system of many small parties forming broader coalitions where needed, with seats awarded on a vote percentage basis to these same coalitions, per coalition.


Oh alright, I misunderstood what you said above about democracies, I thought you were against the very concept of democracy. My bad.
Anyway yes, I agree on proportional-constituted parliaments. I loathe this "winner-takes-all" spirit Presidential system (such as here) and false Parliamentary systems have. You hardly can call them democracies. It's a handy tool to confiscate power, and shit all over what voters, THE PEOPLE FFS, want.

Oh and get rid of Belgium already. How many years without government will it take to eventually split, seriously ? It's only a matter of time, and the sooner, the better IMHO.


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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 8:21 pm 
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Einherjar
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Bruce_Bitenfils wrote:
Oh and get rid of Belgium already. How many years without government will it take to eventually split, seriously ? It's only a matter of time, and the sooner, the better IMHO.

Take a look at the location in my profile here.


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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 10:23 pm 
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Destroyer ov Spambots
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Karmakosmonaut wrote:
Bruce_Bitenfils wrote:
Oh and get rid of Belgium already. How many years without government will it take to eventually split, seriously ? It's only a matter of time, and the sooner, the better IMHO.

Take a look at the location in my profile here.


Oh I did a long time ago, the first time it even made me laugh. I was just poking you a bit. :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 12:19 am 
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Destroyer ov Spambots
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noodles wrote:
wtf at Canada giving Stephen Harper a majority. Not cool, dudes.

I guess they did a great job of making Michael Ignatieff's academic positions at Cambridge, Oxford, and Harvard look like a bad thing.


Image

Talk about meme potential...


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 4:29 am 
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Metal King
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Location: Top of the food chain in Calgary, Canada
Ignatieff was clearly not born to be a politician. Every time he talked, I felt like I was in a University class I regretted taking.

Layton ran a very upbeat positive campaign, he excited a lot of people.

Harper just sat back and watched the center and left divide and conquer themselves. His share of the popular vote barely budged.

Of course, this is what you get from a FPTP system. I suppose it's quite depressing for those on the losing side, but in all honesty I'd rather have a four year rotation than the near endless campaigning that goes on in the US. It's really quite annoying at times (both the politicians and those who bicker over them).

Speaking of memes ... here's the deposed leader of the separatist Bloc Quebecois. Clearly a master of the photo op.

Image

Image

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 9:17 am 
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MetalReviews Staff
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Poor old Iggy. Can't help but mourn the collapse of the Liberals, considering we're starting from a less strong position over here... oh well, roll on tomorrow.


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 9:29 am 
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Ist Krieg
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The SNP has an almost guaranteed win on the cards tomorrow, even looking to gain enough seats to push a referendum on Scottish Independence. Olé!

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