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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:58 pm 
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Ist Krieg
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heatseeker wrote:
cry of the banshee wrote:
heatseeker wrote:
cry of the banshee wrote:
That article made a claim; it offered zero "definitive evidence".
Actually the onus of proof is on the accuser, so I'll turn it around.
You show me the demographics that indicate that the TP are racist and that they are against immigration in general.
I already cited a study that showed that the reportage has been extremely biased against the TP. Did you even read it?

As for the press... yeah, give me a break. Denying the liberal bias is a fucking joke.
Google JournoList.
I can cite independent studies as well that state the obvious: the media leans overwhelmingly left, and has for quite some time... you mention FOX, but you don't mention ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, CNN (more moderate, true, but still a bit left), AP / reuters/ etc., the printed news media, HGN, plus liberal talk radio (there are some of them as well, you know)...
just contrast the reportage of Obama and the GOP candidates, especially in the coming weeks and months. They will try and marginalize whatever the GOP puts up as much as possible while downplaying Obama's incompetence... we are treated with news on how Perry would "attack the constitution", while the media never brings up the numerous constitutional violations that Obama has perpetrated. Or how Bachmanns entourage elbowed some journalist, even though it was obviously close quarters and chaotic, the media have been trying to spin it into something akin to brownshirt tactics. This is obviously BS.
Also, all the things that the media hounded W for are now pretty much never mentioned... Gitmo, Patriot Act, wars, daily death toll, etc.
Or how the media clamored for Palin's e-mails, while not extending that same demand to Obama. Palin is not even a candidate.
Remember the Giffords shooting? It was a concerted effort from the get go to attempt to make it into a right winger attacking a liberal.
Well, that didn't turn out to be the case, now did it?
I can go on and on and on, but instead, I'll cite this link:

http://newsbusters.org/

pages upon pages of examples of liberal bias.

They are critical of Obama, are they? When they are it is usually about something that he has done that is not liberal enough.
Even, so the most effective propaganda is when a small truth is sandwiched between two massive lies.
Google JournoList400.

You even admit that the media is blacking out Paul, though you still make excuses for them doing so. Nope, no bias there.
:lol:


From the article:

Quote:
Beginning in 2006 we interviewed a representative sample of 3,000 Americans as part of our continuing research into national political attitudes, and we returned to interview many of the same people again this summer. As a result, we can look at what people told us, long before there was a Tea Party, to predict who would become a Tea Party supporter five years later. We can also account for multiple influences simultaneously — isolating the impact of one factor while holding others constant.


I don't really know how an article can be any more scientifically rigorous. Maybe you didn't read it very closely, but that article is not JUST an opinion piece, it presents the results of a study and then offers commentary on them. Those results show that Tea Party members, in general, have lower regard for blacks and immigrants than even other Republicans.

Not sure what other type of evidence you are looking for.

Wasn't making excuses for the media...more of a commentary on how the media is being unfair. I kind of agree with you, haha.

But the media is not defending Obama. That is just stupid. What constitutional violations has he perpetrated?

Never denied that the media has a liberal bias...that might be true, I don't really give a fuck. Don't follow the mainstream media much. BUT they're not defending Obama...even if it is criticism for not standing up for liberal principles enough.


That study doesn't show what the interview questions were, or the context or even what the "representative sample " consisted of.
It's all speculative. And holding blacks in low regard doesn't necessarilly equate to "racism", now does it? I'd say they have brought that on themselves, so why is it even a factor (if true, that is... again, I am very suspicious of the MSM in regards to their political reportage).

As for this

Quote:
But the media is not defending Obama. That is just stupid. What constitutional violations has he perpetrated?


http://dailycaller.com/2010/12/27/the-t ... -congress/

http://dailycaller.com/2010/12/27/the-t ... ongress/2/

Add to that bypassing the Congress in regards to getting involved in the Libya mess.
Extending the patriot act is also very very suspicious.

Also a little matter of "equal protection under the law" in regards to his appointed AG, Eric Holder.


I actually said earlier that "low regard" does not necessarily mean "racism". Racism is a very slippery term, etc...

You're justified in asking for the details in terms of questions used, etc., but that itself doesn't invalidate the study. I still look at the results they find and think "yep". You can choose to believe it or not.

That constitutional violations thing is fishy in more than a few places:

Quote:
#6. — Cap and Trade: The Clean Energy and Security Act mandates greenhouse gas emissions be reduced to 17 percent below 2005 levels by 2020, 42 percent below 2005 levels by 2030, and 84 percent below 2005 levels by 2050. By 2020, this tax will extract an estimated $160 billion from the economy, or an average $1,870 per family. Once again, had the chains of Article 1.8 not been broken, America would be spared such tomfoolery. Cap and trade masked in any disguise whatsoever cannot be justified as a general welfare activity.


Blatantly partisan bullshit. The assertion that cap and trade can't be justified is an opinion, not a fact. As if reducing greenhouse gas emissions isn't good for the general welfare.

Other examples of where the article states opinion as fact to justify their claims:

Quote:
more than 400,000 illegal aliens (est.) in Arizona is, by definition, an invasion.


(Laughably oversimplifying the issue.)

Quote:
The $814 billion stimulus is the most backward-thinking proposition to come along since human sacrifice. Dumping borrowed money into an over-fed, bloated and out-of-control ogre doesn’t solve anything, it simply temporarily props up with blocks of melting ice cream a failed and failing government of extravagance. Not only does it illegally take money out of the economy that could be used to provide jobs, but it’s using borrowed money — with interest due.


(Not only is this just a bunch of opinionated, highly debatable bunk, but there's no actual Constitutional violation cited...)

Quote:
The government has no business rescuing private financial institutions from bad judgment and risky ventures. Article 1.8 excludes permission for Congress to grant financial aid or loans to private companies. Any use of Treasury funds must go toward the general welfare, not to specific groups.


(Rescuing the banks can easily be justified as being for the general welfare).

So yeah. There may be actual evidence for this stuff, I'm not an expert, but in general, I trust the Supreme Court to do their job.


Even if those cases you cited are questionable, your opinion on them being "opinionated" is just your opinion... especially the cap and trade.
regardless, I don't see bailing out the banks as being in any way shape or form as being for the general welfare.

What about the healthcare bill? The Libya fiasco? the failure to protect the borders? (oversimplification notwithstanding, it is still a failure in upholding the law)? AG Holder claiming that hate crime legislation doesn't apply to straight white males? Extending the Patriot Act? So you picked out two or three items that are up for debate, what about the rest?
You basically admitted that the media is biased, yet you claim that it has no bias towards Obama. I call BS.
Pay attention in the coming months to how the media represents each respective candidate; you'll see the borderline (and not so borderlne) smear campaign in full regala. And I hate to do it, but I will in this case make it a point to say" Itold ya so", just like back in '08, when I was being railed against for claiming that "Obama will be more of the same, indeed he will make it worse"... look at the old politics thread.
Since you refuse to acknowledge the overall point (instead, focusing on a few details that are not quite as clear cut), and have yet to mention the links I cited, I really don't see the point in continuing this.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:41 am 
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http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/08/20 ... -ron-paul/

Ouch... :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:27 am 
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Ist Krieg
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Cú Chulainn wrote:
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/08/20/10-reasons-not-to-vote-for-ron-paul/

Ouch... :lol:

Well, let's break it down, shall we?

Quote:
Ron Paul does not value equal rights for minorities. Ron Paul has sponsored legislation that would repeal affirmative action, keep the IRS from investigating private schools who may have used race as a factor in denying entrance, thus losing their tax exempt status, would limit the scope of Brown versus Board of Education, and would deny citizenship for those born in the US if their parents are not citizens


Bolded: lie.
He doesn't believe (and I agree) that the federal government should force or coerce PRIVATE institutions to meet racial quotas... and if you are against instititions using race as a factor, how can you be for affirmative action?
And I agree with the idea that the whole anchor baby nonsense has got to go, as well. Do a little research on our Southwestern public schools (I know you won't because you are not interested in facts), aka, schools with an inordinate amount of english as second language students. They are at the bottom of the barrel.

Quote:
Ron Paul would deny women control of their bodies and reproductive rights.Ron Paul makes it very clear that one of his aims is to repeal Roe v. Wade. He has also co sponsored 4 separate bills to “To provide that human life shall be deemed to exist from conception.” This, of course, goes against current medical and scientific information as well as our existing laws and precedents. Please see these links


Bolded: another baldfaced lie.
Actually, there is very credible and substantial evidence that life begins when there is a heartbeat and brainwaves, which, if I recall correctly occur within the first month - month and a half, so yeah.
I will link this data, again, if necessary.
He's an MD, I think he has a little more knowledge on the matter than some judge or politician.

Quote:
Ron Paul would be disastrous for the working class. He supports abolishing the Federal minimum wage, has twice introduced legislation to repeal OSHA, or the Occupational Safety and Health Act and would deal devastating blows to Social Security including repealing the act that makes it mandatory for employees of nonprofits, to make “coverage completely optional for both present and future workers”, and would “freeze benefit levels”. He has also twice sponsored legislation seeking to repeal the Davis-Bacon Act and the Copeland Act which among other things provide that contractors for the federal government must provide the prevailing wage and prohibits corporate “kick backs.”


This I am not too sure about, but going on his history and general principles, I'd wager that it has to do more with what is constitutional, and whether or not the federal government is overstepping its bounds.
I will look into this and refute, if I feel it is necessary.

Quote:
Ron Paul’s tax plan is unfair to lower earners and would greatly benefit those with the highest incomes.He has repeatedly submitted amendments to the tax code that would get rid of the estate and gift taxes, tax all earners at 10%, disallow income tax credits to individuals who are not corporations, repeal the elderly tax credit, child care credit, earned income credit, and other common credits for working class citizens. Please see this link for more information


Bolded: :lol:

How is a flat tax of 10% for ALL "unfair"? Estate and gift taxes only affect the "rich" anyway, how is it unfair to the "lowest earners"?
Getting rid of all the "credits" is what is fair.
Why should "working class citizens" get special tax breaks? I say this as a working class citizen myself.

Quote:
Ron Paul’s policies would cause irreparable damage to our already strained environment. Among other travesties he supports off shore drilling, building more oil refineries, mining on federal lands, no taxes on the production of fuel, and would stop conservation efforts that could be a “Federal obstacle” to building and maintaining refineries. He has also sought to amend the Clean Air Act, repeal the Soil and Water Conservation Act of 1977, and to amend the Federal Water Pollution Control Act to “restrict the jurisdiction of the United States over the discharge of dredged or fill material to discharges into waters”.


Bolded: pure speculation.
What Paul is saying here is he wants less federal government bureacratic interference. Too many regulations = jobs going elsewhere.
As for the offshore drilling, I'm all for it. I don't really enjoy being dependent on other, often hostile regions for oil. It is part of the problem with our foreign policy.
I'd have to see the reasoning behind wanting to repeal the Clean Air act, but I would imagine it is not due to some nefarious plot to "harm the environment".


Quote:
A Ron Paul administration would continue to proliferate the negative image of the US among other nations. Ron Paul supports withdrawing the US from the UN, when that has not happened he has fought to at least have the US withdrawn from the United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization. He has introduced legislation to keep the US from giving any funds to the UN. He also submitted that the US funds should not be used in any UN peacekeeping mission or any UN program at all. He has sponsored a bill calling for us to “terminate all participation by the United States in the United Nations, and to remove all privileges, exemptions, and immunities of the United Nations.”Ron Paul twice supported stopping the destruction of intercontinental ballistic missile silos in the United States. He also would continue with Bush’s plan of ignoring international laws by maintaining an insistence that the International Criminal Court does not apply to the US, despite President Clinton’s signature on the original treaty. The International Criminal Court is used for, among other things, prosecution of war crimes.


I am in agreement with all of this. The UN is an impotent joke, and we are not beholden to it.

As for the bolded: :lol:
Who gives a fuck what you guys think? :lol:

Quote:
Ron Paul discriminates on the basis of sexual orientation and would not provide equal rights and protections to glbt citizens. This is an issue that Paul sort of dances around. He has been praised for stating that the federal government should not regulate who a person marries. This has been construed by some to mean that he is somewhat open to the idea of same sex marriage, he is not. Paul was an original co sponsor of the Marriage Protection Act in the House in 2004. Among other things this discriminatory piece of legislation placed a prohibition on the recognition of a same sex marriage across state borders. He said in 2004 that if he was in the Texas legislature he would not allow judges to come up with “new definitions” of marriage. Paul is a very religious conservative and though he is careful with his words his record shows that he is not a supporter of same sex marriage. In 1980 he introduced a particularly bigoted bill entitled “A bill to strengthen the American family and promote the virtues of family life.” or H.R.7955 A direct quote from the legislation “Prohibits the expenditure of Federal funds to any organization which presents male or female homosexuality as an acceptable alternative life style or which suggest that it can be an acceptable life style.” shows that he is unequivocally opposed to lifestyles other than heterosexual.


Quote:
A direct quote from the legislation “Prohibits the expenditure of Federal funds to any organization which presents male or female homosexuality as an acceptable alternative life style or which suggest that it can be an acceptable life style.”


He is right; the federal government has no business legislating or funding such matters. Nice try, though.
I particularly liked the loaded phrases, "bigoted", "discriminatory", etc... I wonder if the hack that wrote this drivel feels that the federal government should fund heterosexual "lifestyles", which of course there is nothing in the bill that even alludes to such a thing.

Quote:
Ron Paul has an unnatural obsession with guns. One of Paul’s loudest gripes is that the second amendment of the constitution is being eroded. In fact, he believes that September 11 would not have happened if that wasn’t true. He advocates for there to be no restrictions on personal ownership of semi-automatic weaponry or large capacity ammunition feeding devices, would repeal the Gun-Free School Zones Act (because we all know our schools are just missing more guns), wants guns to be allowed in our National Parks, and repeal the Gun Control Act of 1968. Now, I’m pretty damn certain that when the Constitution was written our founding fathers never intended for people to be walking around the streets with AK47′s and “large capacity ammunition feeding devices.” (That just sounds scary.) Throughout the years our Constitution has been amended and is indeed a living document needing changes to stay relevant in our society. Paul has no problem changing the Constitution when it fits his needs, such as no longer allowing those born in the US to be citizens if their parents are not. On the gun issue though he is no holds barred. I know he’s from Texas but really, common sense tells us that the amendments he is seeking to repeal have their place. In fact, the gun control act was put into place after the assassinations of JFK, Martin Luther King, and Robert Kennedy.


:lol:
That is all I have to say about that.

Quote:
Ron Paul would butcher our already sad educational system. The fact is that Ron Paul wants to privatize everything and that includes education. Where we run into problems is that it has been shown (think our current health care system) that this doesn’t work so well in practice. Ron Paul has introduced legislation that would keep the Federal Government “from planning, developing, implementing, or administering any national teacher test or method of certification and from withholding funds from States or local educational agencies that fail to adopt a specific method of teacher certification.” In a separate piece of legislation he seeks to “prohibit the payment of Federal Education assistance in States which require the licensing or certification of private schools or private school teachers.” So basically the federal government can’t regulate teaching credentials and if states opt to require them for private schools they get no aid. That sounds like a marvelous idea teachers with no certification teaching in private schools that are allowed to discriminate on the basis of race. He is certainly moving forward with these proposals!Remember his “bill to strengthen the American family and promote the virtues of family life.” or H.R.7955? Guess what? He basically advocates for segregation in schools once again. It “Forbids any court of the United States from requiring the attendance at a particular school of any student because of race, color, creed, or sex.” Without thinking about this statement it doesn’t sound bad at all. But remember, when desegregating schools that this is done by having children go to different schools, often after a court decision as in Brown Vs. Board of Education. If this were a bill that passed, schools would no longer be compelled to comply and the schools would go back to segregation based on their locations. Ron Paul is really starting to look like a pretty bigoted guy don’t you think?


Yeah, more bullshit.
Up until the DOE was intalled, we were doing just fine, education-wise... strange how once the government took over, our public education system went to hell double time...
as for integration; he is not "advocat(ing) for segregation in schools once again", he is against "requiring (key word here) the attendance at a particular school of any student because of race, color, creed, or sex.” Big difference and all the hyperbolic nail biting won't change that fact.
:lol:


Quote:
Ron Paul is opposed to the separation of church and state. This reason is probably behind every other thing that I disagree with in regards to Paul’s positions. Ron Paul is among those who believes that there is a war on religion, he stated “Through perverse court decisions and years of cultural indoctrination, the elitist, secular Left has managed to convince many in our nation that religion must be driven from public view.” (( Koyaanisqatsi Blog: Wrong Paul Why I Do Not Want Ron Paul to be My President )) Though he talks a good talk, at times, Ron Paul can’t get away from his far right, conservative views. He would support “alternative views” to evolution taught in public schools (i.e. Intelligent Design.) We’ve already taken a look at his “bill to strengthen the American family and promote the virtues of family life.” or H.R.7955 Besides hating the gays he takes a very religious stance on many other things. He is attempting to force his beliefs on the rest of America, exactly what he would do as president.


Speculative alarmist bullshit, nothing more. there is nothing that indicates he is against the seperation of church and state... Even the bill is just the same one (I notice that this bill is used for at least three of the ten "reasons" list here) that has been cited repeatedly.
Nowhere in it is religion even mentioned, though.

In conclusion, this is a rather sad attempt at distorting what Paul has introduced as legislature. It's full of loaded language, it is downright dishonest, and it is an obvious hack job. The author is an idiot if he truly believes the things he wrote, and is part of the problem here.

I just lost what respect I had for you, frig, in posting that drivel.
I realize you couldn't care less about that, but nonetheless, I at least thought your were intellectually honest.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:49 am 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbsZ1BM5 ... re=related

Fuck David Horowitz is hook-nosed Zionists scumbag, he's basically saying in the video: "Love thy fatherland, and don't question the government" when we are engaged in unconstitutional war. He criticizes the left for "Anti-Americanism", which by the way is the same bullshit the Neocons peddle for anyone questioning their false logic about the war- and then he spends two minutes spreading his alarmist Zionist bullshit to his likeminded rabble.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:11 am 
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Ist Krieg

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Cú Chulainn wrote:
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/08/20/10-reasons-not-to-vote-for-ron-paul/

Ouch... :lol:


Absentmindedly gazes at comment section on that site...

tries not to gouge my eyes out.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:13 am 
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emperorblackdoom wrote:
Cú Chulainn wrote:
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/08/20/10-reasons-not-to-vote-for-ron-paul/

Ouch... :lol:


Absentmindedly gazes at comment section on that site...

tries not to gouge my eyes out.


I saw that too

:lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:41 pm 
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Gotta love the fact Nato is killing people in Tripoli for their "Freedom". What a bunch of fucking retards that run the UN and Nato.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:48 pm 
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cry of the banshee wrote:
Even if those cases you cited are questionable, your opinion on them being "opinionated" is just your opinion... especially the cap and trade.
regardless, I don't see bailing out the banks as being in any way shape or form as being for the general welfare.

What about the healthcare bill? The Libya fiasco? the failure to protect the borders? (oversimplification notwithstanding, it is still a failure in upholding the law)? AG Holder claiming that hate crime legislation doesn't apply to straight white males? Extending the Patriot Act? So you picked out two or three items that are up for debate, what about the rest?
You basically admitted that the media is biased, yet you claim that it has no bias towards Obama. I call BS.
Pay attention in the coming months to how the media represents each respective candidate; you'll see the borderline (and not so borderlne) smear campaign in full regala. And I hate to do it, but I will in this case make it a point to say" Itold ya so", just like back in '08, when I was being railed against for claiming that "Obama will be more of the same, indeed he will make it worse"... look at the old politics thread.
Since you refuse to acknowledge the overall point (instead, focusing on a few details that are not quite as clear cut), and have yet to mention the links I cited, I really don't see the point in continuing this.


Which links? newsbusters.org? I did look at that, and I'm sure there are hundreds of examples of liberal bias in the media--just as there are hundreds of examples of conservative bias. I just don't buy the whole smear campaign thing...if you want, I can actually go cite the liberal media articles criticizing Obama. Yes, for not following through on liberal goals, but criticism nonetheless. But it's kind of pointless, since you must know I'm not just making this up.

Were there other links you wanted me to see?

In other news...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kelmEZe8whI

That video is old, but a must watch. Holy fucking shit. Before everyone gets all defensive, I'm sure there are many excellent soldiers in the military like Mr. McCord, but it's a pretty shocking representation of the overall culture and shit that goes down in Iraq.

Also:

http://standwitharizona.com/blog/2011/0 ... k-permits/

Don't really have any strong opinion on this, since I'd have to know more on the details of the work permits to comment on this, but holy shit, go look at the comment section. What a bunch of fucking hateful idiots...I understand why they're mad, but the bigotry is unbelievable. People who actually know immigrants from Mexico and Latin America, legal or illegal, would never say such crap.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:12 am 
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heatseeker wrote:
cry of the banshee wrote:
Even if those cases you cited are questionable, your opinion on them being "opinionated" is just your opinion... especially the cap and trade.
regardless, I don't see bailing out the banks as being in any way shape or form as being for the general welfare.

What about the healthcare bill? The Libya fiasco? the failure to protect the borders? (oversimplification notwithstanding, it is still a failure in upholding the law)? AG Holder claiming that hate crime legislation doesn't apply to straight white males? Extending the Patriot Act? So you picked out two or three items that are up for debate, what about the rest?
You basically admitted that the media is biased, yet you claim that it has no bias towards Obama. I call BS.
Pay attention in the coming months to how the media represents each respective candidate; you'll see the borderline (and not so borderlne) smear campaign in full regala. And I hate to do it, but I will in this case make it a point to say" Itold ya so", just like back in '08, when I was being railed against for claiming that "Obama will be more of the same, indeed he will make it worse"... look at the old politics thread.
Since you refuse to acknowledge the overall point (instead, focusing on a few details that are not quite as clear cut), and have yet to mention the links I cited, I really don't see the point in continuing this.


Which links? newsbusters.org? I did look at that, and I'm sure there are hundreds of examples of liberal bias in the media--just as there are hundreds of examples of conservative bias. I just don't buy the whole smear campaign thing...if you want, I can actually go cite the liberal media articles criticizing Obama. Yes, for not following through on liberal goals, but criticism nonetheless. But it's kind of pointless, since you must know I'm not just making this up.



That's the whole point, though. As I stated, the media is biased in their reportage concerning which candidates get relentlessly hammered (conservative, or whomever is "less liberal", as there are very few true paleocons around) and which get the press' equivalent of a shiatsu (whichever is the more liberal).
Obviously I am exaggerating just a bit, as the spin is (sometimes) more subtle than that... pay attention to the way nuance is used, the way hyperbole is used, the way half-truths are used, the way photos are taken, and the way positions are skewed to either help or harm each respective candidate depending on whether or not there is a D or an R after their name. Exaggerating just a bit, yes... but not much. Watch in the coming months, you'll see what I mean.
I shouldn't have to tell anyone that a monopoly (or damn near) on what (as well as how and when) information is disseminated is not a good thing, as it basically amounts to propaganda.

As of late, ever since Obama has decided to try and lean a bit more towards the center (campaign year, after all) the press has been a little less sycophantic, true, but before that the bias was starkly obvious to anyone that isn't blinded by ideology. I think you know this.

As for "hundreds of examples of conservative bias", I will wager that outside of talk radio (opinion, not news at any rate) there is just FOX.

I was referring to this link, as well:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... id=topnews

as well. At the very least, it strongly suggests that the media's overblown attempt at framing the TP as hatemongers is bogus.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:34 am 
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Anyway, for anyone that is interested, here is the non-hack job, wiki on Paul's political positions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul#P ... _positions


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:26 pm 
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Fascism can triumph today because universal indignation at the infamies committed by the socialists and communists has obtained for it the sympathies of wide circles.... It cannot be denied that Fascism and similar movements aiming at the establishment of dictatorships are full of the best intentions and that their intervention has, for the moment, saved European civilization. - Ludwig Von Mises, libertarian ideologue praised by everyone these days.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:48 pm 
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... China.html


:lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:55 pm 
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http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/0 ... lash-mobs/


Quote:
The community walk against the curfew was designed to draw attention to what the event’s organizers called a war on the African Community, rejecting the claim that the violence of flash mobs is being caused by black youth


But, if it isn't being caused by black youth (actually it is 100% blacks attacking whites, and there is ample video evidence, as well as eyewitness testimony to bear this out), and the curfew is inclusive to all, how is it a "war on the African Community (African? Really?)"?
It's fucking retarded.

:lol:
Is there anything that isn't oppression?
Anybody wondering why the "black community" can't seem to get it's shit together, well this sums it up.

Zero self responsibilty. Total blame on everything and everybody else for their actions and the consequences that follow.
I predict a well deserved backlash a-coming, more and more people are getting damn tired of this nonsense, thanks to the internet.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:07 pm 
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traptunderice wrote:
Fascism can triumph today because universal indignation at the infamies committed by the socialists and communists has obtained for it the sympathies of wide circles.... It cannot be denied that Fascism and similar movements aiming at the establishment of dictatorships are full of the best intentions and that their intervention has, for the moment, saved European civilization. - Ludwig Von Mises, libertarian ideologue praised by everyone these days.


Bit out of context - he was a Jew in 20's/30's Europe, hardly going to be a big fan of fascism really. At the worst, he's saying that communism would destroy so many that a brief bit of fascism will be better in economic terms but not good in the long run.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:21 pm 
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Goat wrote:
traptunderice wrote:
Fascism can triumph today because universal indignation at the infamies committed by the socialists and communists has obtained for it the sympathies of wide circles.... It cannot be denied that Fascism and similar movements aiming at the establishment of dictatorships are full of the best intentions and that their intervention has, for the moment, saved European civilization. - Ludwig Von Mises, libertarian ideologue praised by everyone these days.


Bit out of context - he was a Jew in 20's/30's Europe, hardly going to be a big fan of fascism really. At the worst, he's saying that communism would destroy so many that a brief bit of fascism will be better in economic terms but not good in the long run.


D'oh!
:lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:28 pm 
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cry of the banshee wrote:
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/08/21/community-groups-take-to-south-street-to-protest-philadelphias-crackdown-on-flash-mobs/


Quote:
The community walk against the curfew was designed to draw attention to what the event’s organizers called a war on the African Community, rejecting the claim that the violence of flash mobs is being caused by black youth


But, if it isn't being caused by black youth (actually it is 100% blacks attacking whites, and there is ample video evidence, as well as eyewitness testimony to bear this out), and the curfew is inclusive to all, how is it a "war on the African Community (African? Really?)"?
It's fucking retarded.

:lol:
Is there anything that isn't oppression?
Anybody wondering why the "black community" can't seem to get it's shit together, well this sums it up.

Zero self responsibilty. Total blame on everything and everybody else for their actions and the consequences that follow.
I predict a well deserved backlash a-coming, more and more people are getting damn tired of this nonsense, thanks to the internet.


Fringe group, V, with a fringe mayoral candidate trying to attract attention and stir up controversy. Obviously they are loony, and I am betting the majority of the city feels that way too.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:55 pm 
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Goat wrote:
traptunderice wrote:
Fascism can triumph today because universal indignation at the infamies committed by the socialists and communists has obtained for it the sympathies of wide circles.... It cannot be denied that Fascism and similar movements aiming at the establishment of dictatorships are full of the best intentions and that their intervention has, for the moment, saved European civilization. - Ludwig Von Mises, libertarian ideologue praised by everyone these days.


Bit out of context - he was a Jew in 20's/30's Europe, hardly going to be a big fan of fascism really. At the worst, he's saying that communism would destroy so many that a brief bit of fascism will be better in economic terms but not good in the long run.
Umm don't bring the holocaust into this? Liberalism, his book, was written in 1927. He thought fascism was really awesome and was in support of Mussolini as an example of a way of battling Marxism. Fascism was really awesome when it was directed at things he disliked but once they targeted his group it might become a little problematic for him. It's fine if Antonio Gramsci dies at the hands of fascist imprisonment but god forbid it happen to the Jews. It's an example of how libertarians are kinda hokey when it comes to state intervention. Mind you, von Mises is arguing for a state of emergency form of fascism so he could blame the Holocaust on the over-prolonged reign of fascism. However, to claim that the death of Leftists is not equal to the death of Jews is fucking respulsive. I find it very hard to disconnect the shit that people like von Mises, Friedman and Hayek say from the people who subscribe to their ideology a la Ron Paul. I wonder if Ron Paul would be fine with a little momentary fascism too is all.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:07 pm 
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Where does he praise fascism at all except as a last-ditch action against communism? Where does he claim the death of leftists isn't equal to the death of Jews? Ridiculous thing to say.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:22 pm 
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He views fascism as the kick ass way for liberalism to fight revolution:
Quote:
Now, all at once, they saw that opponents had risen up who gave no heed to such considerations and for whom any means was good enough to defeat an adversary. The militaristic and nationalistic enemies of the Third International felt themselves cheated by liberalism. Liberalism, they thought, stayed their hand when they desired to strike a blow against the revolutionary parties while it was still possible to do so. If liberalism had not hindered them, they would, so they believe, have bloodily nipped the revolutionary movements in the bud.

Quote:
Now it cannot be denied that the only way one can offer effective resistance to violent assaults is by violence. Against the weapons of the Bolsheviks, weapons must be used in reprisal, and it would be a mistake to display weakness before murderers.
This logic of violence is what enables the Jews to be lumped in with the enemy by Nazis. The genocide we know as the Holocaust targeted not only Jews, but communists, gypsies, the disabled, homosexuals, etc. The fact that he sees violence and fascism as a reasonable tactic is problematic. You pointed out that 'he would never support Nazis because he was a jew in the 30s' is a moot point because he does support fascism as long as it wasn't directed towards his own group. If he wanted to post-1940s say that the advent of the genocide of jews is when fascism started going awry is hypocritical and would essentially be saying a jew is worth more than a leftist. I don't know his views on the holocaust but arm-chair espousing as you were doing on his views of fascism given being a Jew would lead me to think he is being hypocritical if he was to claim what you think he would.

He may view fascism as a necessary evil, but the fact the option is still on the table is why Bush could declare a state of emergency and wage war unscrupulously. I don't know why classic liberals advocate state control when they are so anti-state, e.g., Friedman's approval of Pinochet.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:26 pm 
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It's only in the face of chaos. Rule of law must prevail! Liberals appreciate life and property as being sacrosanct, your right, something that should not be taken from you, so faced with the choice of a mob burning your house down and shooting you or the government instituting martial law, it's not a hard choice. It also doesn't make you a fascist.


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