Metal Reviews

Well, you moved from the point of 'if they don't agree with our traditions then they should just leave' to the broader 'they should leave no matter what' which has to be rooted in something and well, blind antagonistic hate seemed to be the reasoning. I was drawing the conclusion that your blindness was broader than just Muslims and included all Arabs. I know it doesn't include the general label of brown folks because I know that your irrational hate of black people is for other reasons.

Oh, and people like me are the ones who teach Critical Thinking courses. PHIL121 at Cincinnati.

Show me whwre I have ever stated I hate black people.

I will wait for it.
Furthermore, race =/= vast cultural differences, and the fact that you cannot make that distinction vis-a-vis the argument about muslim immigration to non-muslim countries really only spotlights ho inept you are at anything remotely approaching critical thought.
You teach Critical thinking courses?





Everything you just posted above is based on fallacy, assumption, emotionally derived conclusions and you have no data to back up your assertions.
God help us.
You are nothing more than a left-wing propaganda spewing cliche, and it's rather pathetic.

I will expect either some proof that "I hate black people" or an apology and a redaction.

I've actually had quite enough of this slander and mischaracterization.

Nope. Not gonna happen.

Just as I thought, from now on you are a jew hating pedophile.
fair enough?

See people like you are cowards; rather than discuss things that conflict with your worldview, and specifcially when you have no real rebuttal, the cheap and easy way out is to smear, marginalize and malign.
It's weak and pathetic.

Even then, I don't see how this justifies trying to murder them.

See, here's the thing; trapt is on the record stating he is fine with jewish civilians being killed, and somehow I'm the racist hater... it's a joke. I've never once stated that I want anybody of any race creed or religion to suffer.

And when called on it, the response was in typical cowardly fashion.

Something should be done, I mean one shouldn't be allowed to just spread lies and smears and get away with it.

I'm not cool with jewish civilians being killed. But I would like to think that I understand why Palestinians would resort to it. I doubt this will satisfy anyone here, but I'm content with violence and I see the reasoning behind why someone might feel it is necessary. I feel that it is necessary in some cases. But that doesn't mean I want to see death. Violence is a form of expression. The Palestinians are faced with the situation that they are outgunned and starving against a military powerhouse that has quite a monolithic media (ideological) force, i.e., Western media. They have no form of resistance besides lashing out at any target they can find. Their rockets aren't as precise as people make them out to be as argued by the Jewish news source quoted earlier. Their resistance is the only form of expression they have, the only way that they can exert some sort of freedom in their given situation. I don't bask and dance for people dying. The Israeli protestors did that when I went to the White House. Did I tell that story? I value freedom more than I do life. I'll admit to that. And before that devolves into a liberal rat race of everyone exerting their freedom over the other person's a la Hobbes. That's unnecessary. Freedom is impinged upon and that forces these situations. Israel put itself in the situation by oppressing and starving out a populace. If some civilians die because of that, it's not the Palestinians' fault. It's not the oppressed's fault that they are oppressed and react to their situation.

@V: Typical cowardly fashion? Fancy. You don't want anybody to suffer? But suffering is fine if it's that own person's fault, right? People who fail at life are responsible for their own situation, according to you, right? There are never any structural issues that require people to fail or prevent certain people from succeeding. You would never wish ill on someone and if ill does fall on someone it's because they opted not to take responsibility of their predicament and make something of themselves? Correct me when I go astray, because you are totally complicit with a global system that requires a large number of people to be unemployed. The more unemployed there are, the more leverage you have to lower wages by threatening to fire everyone and hire the unemployed. You are fine with a system that works to create slums. You have no antipathy towards a system that consciously wreaks ecological havoc, which causes countless folks across the globe to starve from lack of water for crops or be poisoned from the lack of clean water sources or simply be dehydrated from the lack of freshwater.

Racist or not, (and it's cute how you think that I care or have the time to flip through hundreds of pages of thread to find the moments in which you spouted off bigoted, yet possibly not racist, shit) you have shown nothing but utter contempt for a large portion of the population. Maybe it's not as simple as being based on race, but it's definitely fucked up.

More bullshit. To you, saying that a person is ultimately responsible for his own destiny = racism. And that all along has been the basic gist of my argument regarding blacks; that and the double standard that applies in the US.

Don't go around writing checks without the funds to back it up, prof., claims of "not caring nor having the time" to back your shit up won't cut it.
You said I hate blacks; show me one post that would indicate this. Just one. You can't and when called on it, you slither away in typical fashion.

Straight up, this whole bullshit with you and that other assclown calling me racist, bigot etc at every oppurtunity is getting really fucking old. Face the facts that not everybody views the world exactly as your shitty manifesto dictates.

As for jewish civilians getting killed, your posts in this thread indicate that you are indeed cool with it.
So, the tables are turned, eh?
I'll be sure to point out your hatred of jews whenever the oppurtunity arises, eh, komrade?
I'll bet you tire of it pretty quickly.

Alright.

I just don't get why being oppressed means it's morally ok to murder people who have nothing to do with your oppression other than living in the same country as the oppressors. Valuing freedom more than life is one thing, valuing your own freedom more than someone else's life is quite another. A impinging on B's freedom does not give B any moral right to kill C.

Couldn't agree more, Zad.

The argument is that oppression provides an insight into knowledge. That knowledge then translates into moral ground. Oppressors have a reason to avoid the truth. Oppression is heinous and perpetrating it isn't something that you really could live with. Hence you mask facts, you lie to yourself. The oppressed insofar as they are more concerned with trying to simply live have a perceptual clarity on social relations. They have no reason to paint someone as evil or less than human; they simply see the cold facts that they are being oppressed and who that oppressor is.

I see what you did there with the variables, but that isn't exactly the case. Israel's blockade and the ensuing starvation of Palestinian civilians is maintained through policies that essentially make it strategically acceptable to let them die. These policies are predicated on seeing Palestinians as subhumans. Given the aforementioned article's survey a large proportion of Israeli Jews feel that Palestinians are in fact subhuman. They are not such a clear cut C, distinct from B as you would like to make them. The military bombing by A ends, and C still elects and supports candidates that maintain the oppression of B.

The argument could be made that C is simply being duped by A, as A has duped itself. In that case, they would be siding with the oppressors and in this schema of violence that I buy into (Fanon's to be exact), the world quickly becomes good and evil, with us or against us. You might not like it, but that's the political theory account. There are some things worth dying for, and the flip side to that is that there are some things worth fighting back for, which may result in deaths. The conundrum is what is acceptable and what isn't. Stalinist genocide, not acceptable. Algerian resistance to French, acceptable. Palestinian rockets killing Israelis, I don't know if it's acceptable. I'm not in their shoes to know, I find it highly questionable that they are targeting Israeli civilians. In fact, some rockets are actually killing Palestinians insofar as the rockets are really shitty weapons. But they have to do something in order to capture the humanity that has been deprived of them. It is sad that Israeli civilians are being hit, but no more so than any life lost ever. The civilians condone their military's behavior when they don't resist it alongside the Palestinians. Some Jews do challenge it, though.

You talk about duping; ever consider that Hamas benefit just as much from the drawn out aggression as the IDF do and are duping the Palestinians to same degree that the IDF are duping the Israelis?

Material conditions, bro. The duping that Hamas can't do is the bare facts of infrastructure being bombed, food not entering the region, laws that prohibit freshwater access making agriculture untenable, etc. If Israel wants to display Hamas' corruptness, then remove the existential threat to Palestinians that Israeli policy is, which leaves them reliant on fucked up regimes. Then the Palestinians wouldn't have a reason to vote for Hamas.

Hamas is problematic. But they serve a point insofar as they provide stability to the people. They actually do work to attain cease fires and maintain them. Hamas may be misguiding the people, but they have no reason to be pushing a war that they know they will lose.

Trapt, dude, you keep talking about the Israeli policies that force Palestians to rely on fucked up regimes, but - and I'm sorry to repeat myself - it still seems to me that you're only reading one side's propaganda.

Have a look at this:

http://www.cija.ca/hamas/israel_aid_to_gaza/



Israel, as a matter of fact, supplies more aid to Gaza than any organization is currently doing.

I'm skeptical of those numbers. Gut reaction. Critical thinking being put to use. Do we assume that aid is like this each quarter? That wheat might provide that many loaves of bread, but what about in terms of feeding livestock. That's great that they gave them enough pairs of jeans and formula is great for babies. It's good that they provided that aid because that was same time that Israel stopped an aid flotilla on its way to Palestine from Turkey. Why intercept other's aid if you're trying to look out for the well-being of the Gazans?

Israel does provide aid to Palestine, because it has cut them off from any way of being able to provide for themselves hence the need for so much international aid. Then they turn around and use the potential for aid as a bargaining chip to exert their will on the Gazans as witnessed during the election which Hamas won. Israel threatened to cut all aid if Hamas won. They didn't, because they literally can't let people starve to death. The statistics that I am used to hearing provide just enough food so that everyone stays fed but hungry.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-develo ... ary-israel

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/20/world ... ss&emc=rss

Not a big fan of Israel, but as has been mentioned numerous times: there ain't no good guys here.

I don't know. I'm reading this and I'm not getting how Palestine is evil out of this. The rocket that hit the school, just crashed through the ceiling. I read it as if it didn't explode. One rocket crashed into a house. 135 were shot. 42 intercepted. "Most of the others landed in open areas." The ones who are hitting civilians are the ones with the most advanced technologies in the world.