The General Politics Thread

Karmakosmonaut

Goat wrote
Cú Chulainn wrote
Goat wrote
Public sector strikers can fuck the fuck off. That is all.
Seriously? You're turning into a tory.
Strikers are taking the day off to protest merely having to work a little longer and pay a little more for their own damn pensions, which even after the changes are still a far better deal than in the private sector. Low earners in the private sector are paying tax to support their cushy deals - how is that morally right to you? And how does pointing this out make me a Tory?

As in Belgium, the right to strike has almost become a duty to strike.

Bruce_Bitenfils

Karmakosmonaut wrote
Goat wrote
Cú Chulainn wrote
Goat wrote
Public sector strikers can fuck the fuck off. That is all.
Seriously? You're turning into a tory.
Strikers are taking the day off to protest merely having to work a little longer and pay a little more for their own damn pensions, which even after the changes are still a far better deal than in the private sector. Low earners in the private sector are paying tax to support their cushy deals - how is that morally right to you? And how does pointing this out make me a Tory?
As in Belgium, the right to strike has almost become a duty to strike.

You can't beat us. We're world champions of going on strike for nothing. In some public sectors, some (not all of course) people go on strike from december 23 to december 26 every single year, for whatever reason. And we're talking about people who have job security (they legally cannot be fired). I insist, this is a minority, they're not all like this of course. But we have massive cunts in our public sectors, and no matter how bad your cunts are, ours are worse.

Goat

I'm not saying ours is the worst public sector in the world. But it is full of people who want their cushy lifestyles to be paid for by other, poorer people. Trapt, no-one is getting fucked over except the taxpayer and the next generation. Talk about the 1%... our national debt is already over £1 trillion. Apparently leaving your children's country in a worst off position than your own is the progressive thing to do, however!

Bruce_Bitenfils

Goat wrote
Apparently leaving your children's country in a worst off position than your own is the progressive thing to do, however!

Metastable to Chaos would call it a... metastable to chaos.

traptunderice

Goat wrote
Trapt, no-one is getting fucked over except the taxpayer and the next generation.

This has nothing to do with taxes. Public workers have better benefits than most other workers but that is only because workers in the private sector barely make a living wage more often than not. They are not being selfish by defending their own interests, built on the efforts of the unions. Rather than cutting benefits to workers why not look to other costs which affect it? I just generally don't buy into arguments of those workers are being selfish because they're actually making a decent living from their jobs.

Goat

Well, they self-evidently ARE being selfish by acting in their own interests, since that's what the word means! When people are living longer it doesn't make sense to keep old retirement ages as standard, does it? And again, public workers are paid for from public money - government does not create money of its own! Let's not pretend unions represent the poor; they represent their members, as much a vested interest as big business.

traptunderice

Goat wrote
Well, they self-evidently ARE being selfish by acting in their own interests, since that's what the word means! When people are living longer it doesn't make sense to keep old retirement ages as standard, does it? And again, public workers are paid for from public money - government does not create money of its own! Let's not pretend unions represent the poor; they represent their members, as much a vested interest as big business.

Selfish has connotations of greediness, which isn't the case in this situation. Are they protesting solely for retirement ages? And I never said unions protect the poor. The problem is that the poor become the standard of expectations for all workers despite unions having gained their members some benefits.

Goat

You need to read Ayn Rand. :wink: (obvious troll is obvious)

I see your argument, but I don't view the issue in the same way - surely a caring society should set their base objective as protection of the poorest, not as defence of the middle class. The safety net has gaping holes in it, why focus on the better-off?

traptunderice

Goat wrote
You need to read Ayn Rand. :wink: (obvious troll is obvious)I see your argument, but I don't view the issue in the same way - surely a caring society should set their base objective as protection of the poorest, not as defence of the middle class. The safety net has gaping holes in it, why focus on the better-off?

So those cuts to the public sector workers will that result in protection for the poorest? Why is targeting the middle class better than targeting the upper class? Does your one percent control forty percent of the wealth, too? By all means, sending the poor down the creek without a paddle for the comfort of the middle class is dubious but that's not what this is. This is stripping unionized workers of the advances they have made in order to attack a debt caused mainly by waging war and shady dealings, I assume. If once the problem of an extravagant debt is tackled, you could actually expect that training, jobs and housing would be provided to the poorest sector then maybe this would seem more legit but as of right now it's just an austerity measure against labor in my eyes.

Goat

"Stripping advances" is ridiculous and over-emotional when we're merely talking about paying more of your own income towards your own cushy pension, and retiring a few years later because westerners live longer overall. I'm not defending warmongering, but this government is at least attempting to provide more housing, better education and more jobs, and a massive deficit will not aid that now or in the future. Whether the government can even succeed in providing any of this at all when the EU is exploding in slow-motion and Iran are sacking our embassy is another matter...

traptunderice

Goat wrote
"Stripping advances" is ridiculous and over-emotional when we're merely talking about paying more of your own income towards your own cushy pension, and retiring a few years later because westerners live longer overall.

But surely they get paid less wages in return for receiving those pensions, no? I don't know enough about the system over there I guess.

Wintermute

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.aclu.org/national-security/senate-poised-pass-indefinite-detention-without-charge-or-trial">http://www.aclu.org/national-security/s ... e-or-trial</a>

Perturbing.

Wintermute

traptunderice

And liberals are idiots?

<a class="postlink" href="http://thinkprogress.org/health/2011/12/05/382337/house-republicans-push-bill-to-ban-abortions-based-on-the-race-or-sex-of-the-fetus/">http://thinkprogress.org/health/2011/12 ... the-fetus/</a>

I have no idea what this is even fucking about. If V was here, he would let me know how common-sensical and rational this bill is.

Bruce_Bitenfils

traptunderice wrote
And liberals are idiots?<a class="postlink" href="http://thinkprogress.org/health/2011/12/05/382337/house-republicans-push-bill-to-ban-abortions-based-on-the-race-or-sex-of-the-fetus/">http://thinkprogress.org/health/2011/12 ... the-fetus/</a>I have no idea what this is even fucking about. If V was here, he would let me know how common-sensical and rational this bill is.

Don't know if I should laugh, or laugh. In doubt, I think I'll just laugh.

And then laugh some more.

C_Chulainn

Bye, bye England? SNP plans closer Scandinavian ties after independence<a class="postlink" href="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/bye-bye-england-snp-plans-closer-scandinavian-ties-after-independence-6272337.html?fb_action_ids=10151017713350384&fb_action_types=news.reads&fb_source=other_multiline">http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... _multiline</a>An independent Scotland would shift much of its attention away from the UK to become a member of the Scandinavian circle of countries, with its own army, navy and air force modelled on its Nordic neighbours, according to detailed plans being drawn up by the SNP.Senior SNP strategists are compiling a "prospectus for independence" which they hope to use to sell the idea of separation to Scots ahead of the referendum in 2014 or 2015.The document is not due to be published in full for another year but SNP insiders have disclosed key extracts.They reveal that SNP leaders want an independent Scotland to look north and east in Europe for partnerships, trade and key defence relationships, rather than continuing to focus on western Europe and the Commonwealth, as the UK does now.Senior Nationalists, including Alex Salmond, have made several trips to Scandinavia over the last couple of years, meeting ministers and officials in an attempt to pave the way for greater co-operation if Scotland becomes independent, particularly on energy. Indeed, initial plans have already been drawn up for an electricity super-grid between Scotland and Norway.SNP strategists insist that Scotland would continue to be extremely close to the rest of the UK, which would remain its biggest trading partner, but they also believe that Scotland has more in common with its Scandinavian neighbours than the UK does and they are keen to take this relationship to a new level.The Scandinavian approach is being driven by Angus Robertson, the SNP's defence and foreign affairs spokesman in Westminster. Mr Robertson said recently that Scotland's relationship with its Scandinavian neighbours had suffered because of a southern bias since the Act of Union in 1707.He declared: "Our neighbours to the north and east have already made a good start and work constructively together. We need to join them and play our part. The UK has opted out of a serious approach. We should not."As well as being used to sell the idea of an independent Scotland at home, the prospectus for independence will be the basis for negotiations with Westminster if the referendum is won. In those negotiations, Alex Salmond will demand 9 per cent (roughly Scotland's share of the UK population) of all UK assets, including defence hardware.Under the plans being drawn up there would an independent Scottish navy based at Faslane – currently the base of the UK's Trident submarine fleet – and a Scottish air force based at Lossiemouth and Kinloss in Moray.SNP strategists also expect an independent Scotland to be given the Royal Regiment of Scotland, whose five regular and two territorial battalions would form the backbone of a new independent army.The Nationalists who are drawing up the prospectus have been told to make sure it is signed off before 2014, the earliest likely date for the referendum.Scottish independence: how it would lookTradeCloser co-operation with Sweden, Denmark and Norway on trade, energy grids and oil and gas exploration.DefenceAn independent Scottish navy based at Faslane. The Clyde facility would be transformed from its current role as the base of the UK's Trident submarine fleet to become the headquarters of the Scottish navy. The navy would be similar to those run by Norway and Denmark, with a small number of frigates, a few corvettes and patrol vessels and possibly a couple of submarines.An independent Scottish air force based at Lossiemouth and Kinloss in Moray, centred on a squadron of Lockheed Orion P-3 maritime surveillance aircraft. These would have to be bought by the Scottish Government at a cost of £29m each.An independent Scottish army. SNP strategists expect an independent Scotland to be given the Royal Regiment of Scotland by the Ministry of Defence. The regiment's five regular and two territorial battalions would form the new Scottish army.TransportThe exploitation of new sea lanes from Asia over the top of Russia, which are being opened up because of global warming, and possibly establishing a major new container port in Fife to rival Rotterdam.

Finally, some concrete data. Interesting, it looks like the Scandos are taking Salmond seriously.

Goat

And join the Euro, presumably? That'll make you lot popular.

Goat

Another shooting at Virginia Tech? Say it ain't so... :sad:

traptunderice

Goat wrote
Another shooting at Virginia Tech? Say it ain't so... :sad:

For serious! Saw that while having lunch with my mother this afternoon. What is going on at that school? This one doesn't seem as planned or methodical perhaps? Details seemed sketchy when I saw it.

North_From_Here

traptunderice wrote
Goat wrote
Another shooting at Virginia Tech? Say it ain't so... :sad:
For serious! Saw that while having lunch with my mother this afternoon. What is going on at that school? This one doesn't seem as planned or methodical perhaps? Details seemed sketchy when I saw it.

Virginia Tech shares one thing in common with Penn State, both are located in very isolated small towns where the university is essentially the town.

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