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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:28 pm 
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Ist Krieg
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Stefan wrote:
Kathaarian wrote:
EisenFaust wrote:
You got my post all wrong. The only reason I mentioned the exports was in response to this:

Astaroth wrote:
we are already paying for it :D through boycots of danish food throughout most of the middle east.



But threats does not change the fact that the goverment has no influence on the press, the queen can't apologize for something a newspaper has published and the authorities will not punish the director of the newspaper.



Ok. I'm sorry about that, I may have got it wrong. But if you guys don't do something about this like apologize these crazy fucks won't calm down. And the most effective apology can only be of the president or the queen. I really wouln't want to see bombs going off all over Denmark, and you know they can do it and innocent people can die.


see, the problem is us Europeans do value the freedom of speech. plus our countries aren't ruled by religions anymore...

that's what makes it unacceptable to appologize...

I know it sounds crazy but a BMer like you are should understand how important it is to fight for your principles....


Hmm, you're making a good point. I do fight for principles and I would fight to death. But if you look at it this way then the Arabs are also standing up for their principles and protecting what's sacred to them aren't they ?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:33 pm 
Kathaarian wrote:
Stefan wrote:
Kathaarian wrote:
EisenFaust wrote:
You got my post all wrong. The only reason I mentioned the exports was in response to this:

Astaroth wrote:
we are already paying for it :D through boycots of danish food throughout most of the middle east.



But threats does not change the fact that the goverment has no influence on the press, the queen can't apologize for something a newspaper has published and the authorities will not punish the director of the newspaper.



Ok. I'm sorry about that, I may have got it wrong. But if you guys don't do something about this like apologize these crazy fucks won't calm down. And the most effective apology can only be of the president or the queen. I really wouln't want to see bombs going off all over Denmark, and you know they can do it and innocent people can die.


see, the problem is us Europeans do value the freedom of speech. plus our countries aren't ruled by religions anymore...

that's what makes it unacceptable to appologize...

I know it sounds crazy but a BMer like you are should understand how important it is to fight for your principles....


Hmm, you're making a good point. I do fight for principles and I would fight to death. But if you look at it this way then the Arabs are also standing up for their principles and protecting what's sacred to them aren't they ?


indeed

just the answer I was expecting

then we're aiming either to a new Religion War or to an evolution in the arab world

ho, and btw, I heard it was forbidden to represent god, but Muhammad isn't god he's just a prophet...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:39 pm 
Stefan wrote:
Kathaarian wrote:
Stefan wrote:
Kathaarian wrote:
EisenFaust wrote:
You got my post all wrong. The only reason I mentioned the exports was in response to this:

Astaroth wrote:
we are already paying for it :D through boycots of danish food throughout most of the middle east.



But threats does not change the fact that the goverment has no influence on the press, the queen can't apologize for something a newspaper has published and the authorities will not punish the director of the newspaper.



Ok. I'm sorry about that, I may have got it wrong. But if you guys don't do something about this like apologize these crazy fucks won't calm down. And the most effective apology can only be of the president or the queen. I really wouln't want to see bombs going off all over Denmark, and you know they can do it and innocent people can die.


see, the problem is us Europeans do value the freedom of speech. plus our countries aren't ruled by religions anymore...

that's what makes it unacceptable to appologize...

I know it sounds crazy but a BMer like you are should understand how important it is to fight for your principles....


Hmm, you're making a good point. I do fight for principles and I would fight to death. But if you look at it this way then the Arabs are also standing up for their principles and protecting what's sacred to them aren't they ?


indeed

just the answer I was expecting

then we're aiming either to a new Religion War or to an evolution in the arab world

ho, and btw, I heard it was forbidden to represent god, but Muhammad isn't god he's just a prophet...


it's also forbidden to represent Muhammad :wink: ... not even muslims represent him...


he he.. that reminds me of a movie i saw a few months ago before those drawins - a movie about Muhammad... interesting movie, but you never saw him or heard him speak, so when ppl talked to him, they talked to the camera :D and when he was supposed to talk another guy spoke his mind.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:42 pm 
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Ist Krieg
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Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:26 pm
Posts: 6810
Location: lolchair
Astaroth wrote:
Stefan wrote:
Kathaarian wrote:
Stefan wrote:
Kathaarian wrote:
EisenFaust wrote:
You got my post all wrong. The only reason I mentioned the exports was in response to this:

Astaroth wrote:
we are already paying for it :D through boycots of danish food throughout most of the middle east.



But threats does not change the fact that the goverment has no influence on the press, the queen can't apologize for something a newspaper has published and the authorities will not punish the director of the newspaper.



Ok. I'm sorry about that, I may have got it wrong. But if you guys don't do something about this like apologize these crazy fucks won't calm down. And the most effective apology can only be of the president or the queen. I really wouln't want to see bombs going off all over Denmark, and you know they can do it and innocent people can die.


see, the problem is us Europeans do value the freedom of speech. plus our countries aren't ruled by religions anymore...

that's what makes it unacceptable to appologize...

I know it sounds crazy but a BMer like you are should understand how important it is to fight for your principles....


Hmm, you're making a good point. I do fight for principles and I would fight to death. But if you look at it this way then the Arabs are also standing up for their principles and protecting what's sacred to them aren't they ?


indeed

just the answer I was expecting

then we're aiming either to a new Religion War or to an evolution in the arab world

ho, and btw, I heard it was forbidden to represent god, but Muhammad isn't god he's just a prophet...


it's also forbidden to represent Muhammad :wink: ... not even muslims represent him...



Yep. You can not find a single painting of him anywhere that is muslim. Why ? I don't know.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:47 pm 
Kathaarian wrote:
Astaroth wrote:
Stefan wrote:
Kathaarian wrote:
Stefan wrote:
Kathaarian wrote:
EisenFaust wrote:
You got my post all wrong. The only reason I mentioned the exports was in response to this:

Astaroth wrote:
we are already paying for it :D through boycots of danish food throughout most of the middle east.



But threats does not change the fact that the goverment has no influence on the press, the queen can't apologize for something a newspaper has published and the authorities will not punish the director of the newspaper.



Ok. I'm sorry about that, I may have got it wrong. But if you guys don't do something about this like apologize these crazy fucks won't calm down. And the most effective apology can only be of the president or the queen. I really wouln't want to see bombs going off all over Denmark, and you know they can do it and innocent people can die.


see, the problem is us Europeans do value the freedom of speech. plus our countries aren't ruled by religions anymore...

that's what makes it unacceptable to appologize...

I know it sounds crazy but a BMer like you are should understand how important it is to fight for your principles....


Hmm, you're making a good point. I do fight for principles and I would fight to death. But if you look at it this way then the Arabs are also standing up for their principles and protecting what's sacred to them aren't they ?


indeed

just the answer I was expecting

then we're aiming either to a new Religion War or to an evolution in the arab world

ho, and btw, I heard it was forbidden to represent god, but Muhammad isn't god he's just a prophet...


it's also forbidden to represent Muhammad :wink: ... not even muslims represent him...



Yep. You can not find a single painting of him anywhere that is muslim. Why ? I don't know.


in early christianity it was forbidden to draw God too, because it was impossible to draw the REAL DEAL! :D .. probably also because it would lower God to a human being that could be seen, touch and weighted, if you know what i mean.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:50 pm 
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Ist Krieg
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Maybe it's to prevent anyone from making charicatures of him. Too bad. They did it anyway. :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:13 pm 
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Location: Somewhere between slightly irritated and really pissed off...
Stefan wrote:
Kathaarian wrote:
Stefan wrote:
Kathaarian wrote:
EisenFaust wrote:
You got my post all wrong. The only reason I mentioned the exports was in response to this:

Astaroth wrote:
we are already paying for it :D through boycots of danish food throughout most of the middle east.



But threats does not change the fact that the goverment has no influence on the press, the queen can't apologize for something a newspaper has published and the authorities will not punish the director of the newspaper.



Ok. I'm sorry about that, I may have got it wrong. But if you guys don't do something about this like apologize these crazy fucks won't calm down. And the most effective apology can only be of the president or the queen. I really wouln't want to see bombs going off all over Denmark, and you know they can do it and innocent people can die.


see, the problem is us Europeans do value the freedom of speech. plus our countries aren't ruled by religions anymore...

that's what makes it unacceptable to appologize...

I know it sounds crazy but a BMer like you are should understand how important it is to fight for your principles....


Hmm, you're making a good point. I do fight for principles and I would fight to death. But if you look at it this way then the Arabs are also standing up for their principles and protecting what's sacred to them aren't they ?


indeed

just the answer I was expecting

then we're aiming either to a new Religion War or to an evolution in the arab world...


No problem Kathaarian. I should probably have made a distinction between my answear to you and my comment to Astaroths post...

Like you two deducted rigid principles on both sides is the big issue. Many people here would consider it an outrage to sort of give in to extremists at the expense of a constitutional democratic right. Of course I'm not interested in being killed by a bomber in the subway but there are certain principles that are almost sacred here and freedom of speech is one of them.

As the situation is now the only winners is the islamic officials that can use this domestically and the Danish nationalist party that is gaining a lot sympathy on this account..


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:15 pm 
EisenFaust wrote:
Stefan wrote:
Kathaarian wrote:
Stefan wrote:
Kathaarian wrote:
EisenFaust wrote:
You got my post all wrong. The only reason I mentioned the exports was in response to this:

Astaroth wrote:
we are already paying for it :D through boycots of danish food throughout most of the middle east.



But threats does not change the fact that the goverment has no influence on the press, the queen can't apologize for something a newspaper has published and the authorities will not punish the director of the newspaper.



Ok. I'm sorry about that, I may have got it wrong. But if you guys don't do something about this like apologize these crazy fucks won't calm down. And the most effective apology can only be of the president or the queen. I really wouln't want to see bombs going off all over Denmark, and you know they can do it and innocent people can die.


see, the problem is us Europeans do value the freedom of speech. plus our countries aren't ruled by religions anymore...

that's what makes it unacceptable to appologize...

I know it sounds crazy but a BMer like you are should understand how important it is to fight for your principles....


Hmm, you're making a good point. I do fight for principles and I would fight to death. But if you look at it this way then the Arabs are also standing up for their principles and protecting what's sacred to them aren't they ?


indeed

just the answer I was expecting

then we're aiming either to a new Religion War or to an evolution in the arab world...


No problem Kathaarian. I should probably have made a distinction between my answear to you and my comment to Astaroths post...

Like you two deducted rigid principles on both sides is the big issue. Many people here would consider it an outrage to sort of give in to extremists at the expense of a constitutional democratic right. Of course I'm not interested in being killed by a bomber in the subway but there are certain principles that are almost sacred here and freedom of speech is one of them.

As the situation is now the only winners is the islamic officials that can use this domestically and the Danish nationalist party that is gaining a lot sympathy on this account..


[hippie mode] yeah, the good guys never win... why don't we all just stop the madness ?[/hippie mode] :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:33 pm 
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Location: Somewhere between slightly irritated and really pissed off...
:D
[hippie mode] I'm off to the nearest mosque to give the local imam a big hug[/hippie mode]


[back to normal mode] I'm looking forward to the next ice age


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:42 pm 
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Ist Krieg
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EisenFaust wrote:
:D
[hippie mode] I'm off to the nearest mosque to give the local imam a big hug[/hippie mode]


[back to normal mode] I'm looking forward to the next ice age


:lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:44 pm 
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Ist Krieg
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EisenFaust wrote:
:D
[hippie mode] I'm off to the nearest mosque to give the local imam a big hug[/hippie mode]


[back to normal mode] I'm looking forward to the next ice age

I'm going to go bobsledging!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 3:55 pm 
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Image

Interesting article, by some guy called "Hitchens". No doubt all you Yanks know him/her...
Quote:
As well as being a small masterpiece of inarticulacy and self-abnegation, the statement from the State Department about this week's international Muslim pogrom against the free press was also accidentally accurate.

"Anti-Muslim images are as unacceptable as anti-Semitic images, as anti-Christian images, or any other religious belief."

Thus the hapless Sean McCormack, reading painfully slowly from what was reported as a prepared government statement. How appalling for the country of the First Amendment to be represented by such an administration. What does he mean "unacceptable?" That it should be forbidden? And how abysmal that a "spokesman" cannot distinguish between criticism of a belief system and slander against a people. However, the illiterate McCormack is right in unintentionally comparing racist libels to religious faith. Many people have pointed out that the Arab and Muslim press is replete with anti-Jewish caricature, often of the most lurid and hateful kind. In one way the comparison is hopelessly inexact. These foul items mostly appear in countries where the state decides what is published or broadcast. However, when Muslims republish the Protocols of the Elders of Zion or perpetuate the story of Jewish blood-sacrifice at Passover, they are recycling the fantasies of the Russian Orthodox Christian secret police (in the first instance) and of centuries of Roman Catholic and Lutheran propaganda (in the second). And, when an Israeli politician refers to Palestinians as snakes or pigs or monkeys, it is near to a certainty that he will be a rabbi (most usually Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, the leader of the disgraceful Shas party), and will cite Talmudic authority for his racism. For most of human history, religion and bigotry have been two sides of the same coin, and it still shows.

Therefore there is a strong case for saying that the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten, and those who have reprinted its efforts out of solidarity, are affirming the right to criticize not merely Islam but religion in general. And the Bush administration has no business at all expressing an opinion on that. If it is to say anything, it is constitutionally obliged to uphold the right and no more. You can be sure that the relevant European newspapers have also printed their share of cartoons making fun of nuns and popes and messianic Israeli settlers, and taunting child-raping priests. There was a time when this would not have been possible. But those taboos have been broken.

Which is what taboos are for. Islam makes very large claims for itself. In its art, there is a prejudice against representing the human form at all. The prohibition on picturing the prophet—who was only another male mammal—is apparently absolute. So is the prohibition on pork or alcohol or, in some Muslim societies, music or dancing. Very well then, let a good Muslim abstain rigorously from all these. But if he claims the right to make me abstain as well, he offers the clearest possible warning and proof of an aggressive intent. This current uneasy coexistence is only an interlude, he seems to say. For the moment, all I can do is claim to possess absolute truth and demand absolute immunity from criticism. But in the future, you will do what I say and you will do it on pain of death.

I refuse to be spoken to in that tone of voice, which as it happens I chance to find "offensive." ( By the way, hasn't the word "offensive" become really offensive lately?) The innate human revulsion against desecration is much older than any monotheism: Its most powerful expression is in the Antigone of Sophocles. It belongs to civilization. I am not asking for the right to slaughter a pig in a synagogue or mosque or to relieve myself on a "holy" book. But I will not be told I can't eat pork, and I will not respect those who burn books on a regular basis. I, too, have strong convictions and beliefs, and value the Enlightenment above any priesthood or any sacred fetish-object. It is revolting to me to breathe the same air as wafts from the exhalations of the madrasahs, or the reeking fumes of the suicide-murderers, or the sermons of Billy Graham and Joseph Ratzinger. But these same principles of mine also prevent me from wreaking random violence on the nearest church, or kidnapping a Muslim at random and holding him hostage, or violating diplomatic immunity by attacking the embassy or the envoys of even the most despotic Islamic state, or making a moronic spectacle of myself threatening blood and fire to faraway individuals who may have hurt my feelings. The babyish rumor-fueled tantrums that erupt all the time, especially in the Islamic world, show yet again that faith belongs to the spoiled and selfish childhood of our species.

As it happens, the cartoons themselves are not very brilliant, or very mordant, either. But if Muslims do not want their alleged prophet identified with barbaric acts or adolescent fantasies, they should say publicly that random murder for virgins is not in their religion. And here one runs up against a curious reluctance. … In fact, Sunni Muslim leaders can't even seem to condemn the blowing-up of Shiite mosques and funeral processions, which even I would describe as sacrilege. Of course there are many millions of Muslims who do worry about this, and another reason for condemning the idiots at Foggy Bottom is their assumption, dangerous in many ways, that the first lynch mob on the scene is actually the genuine voice of the people. There's an insult to Islam, if you like.

The question of "offensiveness" is easy to decide. First: Suppose that we all agreed to comport ourselves in order to avoid offending the believers? How could we ever be sure that we had taken enough precautions? On Saturday, I appeared on CNN, which was so terrified of reprisal that it "pixilated" the very cartoons that its viewers needed to see. And this ignoble fear in Atlanta, Ga., arose because of an illustration in a small Scandinavian newspaper of which nobody had ever heard before! Is it not clear, then, that those who are determined to be "offended" will discover a provocation somewhere? We cannot possibly adjust enough to please the fanatics, and it is degrading to make the attempt.

Second (and important enough to be insisted upon): Can the discussion be carried on without the threat of violence, or the automatic resort to it? When Salman Rushdie published The Satanic Verses in 1988, he did so in the hope of forwarding a discussion that was already opening in the Muslim world, between extreme Quranic literalists and those who hoped that the text could be interpreted. We know what his own reward was, and we sometimes forget that the fatwa was directed not just against him but against "all those involved in its publication," which led to the murder of the book's Japanese translator and the near-deaths of another translator and one publisher. I went on Crossfire at one point, to debate some spokesman for outraged faith, and said that we on our side would happily debate the propriety of using holy writ for literary and artistic purposes. But that we would not exchange a word until the person on the other side of the podium had put away his gun. (The menacing Muslim bigmouth on the other side refused to forswear state-sponsored suborning of assassination, and was of course backed up by the Catholic bigot Pat Buchanan.) The same point holds for international relations: There can be no negotiation under duress or under the threat of blackmail and assassination. And civil society means that free expression trumps the emotions of anyone to whom free expression might be inconvenient. It is depressing to have to restate these obvious precepts, and it is positively outrageous that the administration should have discarded them at the very first sign of a fight.


A random cartoon from an Islamic newpaper. I want it as my avatar:
Image


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:15 pm 
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This whole episode has been- and will continue to be- a fucking disgrace. Fuck you fundies with your "Watch out Europe you're going to get blown up", fuck you xenophobes who are using this as an excuse to say "now please can we deport all non-whites?", fuck you sensationalist press that deems it necessary to kick each and every metaphorical beehive. Religion is such a loathsome presence... But I suppose I should just be grateful that I'm still allowed to say that without risking a 7 year prison sentence.

Talk about playing into Nick Griffin's hands... For shame! :x


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:15 pm 
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Quote:
or making a moronic spectacle of myself threatening blood and fire to faraway individuals who may have hurt my feelings. The babyish rumor-fueled tantrums that erupt all the time, especially in the Islamic world, show yet again that faith belongs to the spoiled and selfish childhood of our species.


Sums up my feelings exactly. I am absolutely fed up with these assclowns. I try to be more tolerant but their actions make me wish for napalm.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:18 pm 
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When will it end?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:26 pm 
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This whole incident just smacks me as something you'd read in a Douglas Adams book.

Picture the scene - the main characters land on a planet that the computer informs them has been in a state of war because one group's religious leader was made fun of in a drawing. Reader smirks "wow I love this farcical guff."


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:28 pm 
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Quote:
"They want to know whether Muslims are extremists or not. Death to them and to their newspapers," he said.


:lol: You just answered that yourself you smacktard. :roll: BTW, this is Denmark we're talking about. Vikings, people! Get some long-boat action going and give these monobrowed barbarians a good old fashioned norsekicking!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:20 pm 
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Sir Wanksalot wrote:
Quote:
"They want to know whether Muslims are extremists or not. Death to them and to their newspapers," he said.


:lol: You just answered that yourself you smacktard. :roll: BTW, this is Denmark we're talking about. Vikings, people! Get some long-boat action going and give these monobrowed barbarians a good old fashioned norsekicking!



:lol:

Well being the local chieftain I gathered my men and set out from Copenhagen last saturday. The wind was on our side and we made good speed. I was sitting on my longboat sharpening my battleaxe as the mead and mushrooms suddenly wore off and we decided to head back.

The good thing about this decision was that we made it home before supper.

The bad thing however was that at that time we had already pillaged two medium-sized english settlements.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:20 am 
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The point is some Muslim terrorist will get wind of this thread and they will declare a Jihad against Metal Reviews. (Or maybe just Zad) :D


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:14 pm 
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Arthur wrote:
The point is some Muslim terrorist will get wind of this thread and they will declare a Jihad against Metal Reviews. (Or maybe just Zad) :D


Bring it on. Still, I think all those unclad western sluts walking around showing their legs are more of a threat to the eastern mentality than blastbeats.


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