Metal Reviews

Ok, i don't believe in god but i also, don't not belive in god, i'm undecided! I have looked at quite a few religions but i always ask the same question, how do you know there is a god?? The simple answer is they don't know, hence the need to believe!! However i have only been able to find one piece of evidence to suggest that there is a god.

It was in a documentary on channel4 called what we still don't know. A mathematician had created a computer simultion of a universe where every law of nature was accounted for and began with the big bang. This mathematician calculated that to create a universe capable of sustaining lfe there would need to be.......a trillion, trillion trillion, trillion trillion, trillion trillion, trillion trillion, trillion calculations! (i'm not taking the piss!) This means that it is staticsticly impossible for life to have been created by accident, therefore there must be a god to have over seen the implication of the laws of physics and so forth.

Heres a link to the programs site, which explains it better then i can

http://www.channel4.com/science/microsi ... index.html

so thats something to consider when think about weather or not god exist!

That's not logical. It doesn't matter what the odds were, because we're here now.

how is that not logical???

Here's your line of reasoning:

1. The odds that the universe supports life are 10000000000000 to 1 2. Therefore, it's statistically impossible for us to have evolved.
3. Therefore, there was a god who made us.

BEEP! Not logical. Effect-to-cause reasoning.

Yep. using this line of reason, you can prove everything.
Example:
1. The odds that I win the lottery are 10000000000000 to 1
2. Therefore, it's statistically impossible for me to won the lottery.
3. Therefore, Santa Claus lives in the northpole, and made me won the lottery.

You can aply that to prove all that you want.

WTF??? your making assumptions

A) why can you not believe in evelution and god??? For example, god created the world in 7 days??? Unless you are a evangelist you don't take the bible litlerally, so a day could be a billion years, so god created man and as time passed he evolved into gods form. Darwin himself was a devoted christian and saw no conflict in his work and his religious beliefs, as do many practicing christians

B) I never said its staticticly impossible not to have evolved you just made that up. in fact i said that the computer simulation encorporated all laws of nature and physics, it simulted real life under these laws and created a series of universes, some of which evolved to create life, but an infinate amount did not.

C) I negleted to mation the theory of the mulitverse. This is the idea that there are an infinate amount of universes running parallel to each other, but each universe being in some way different. By the very nature of infinity it this would have to result in a universe that is capable of sustaining life regardless of the amount of calcultions needed to create life

so i think you need to look up illogical before you start branishing that word around

dude, theres a difference between the odds of winning the lottery and a truly infinate number..... i mean really think about just how big that number really is??? a trillion, trillion trillion, trillion trillion, trillion trillion, trillion trillion, trillion.... i cant even imagin just one trillion nver mind that many!!!if your so agaist this idea (fuck knows why!) why don't you click on the link i provided and see what the scientist and co have to say???

What I'm saying is not about the lottery and the odds, it's about first-order logic.

From the link you provided, for me this is the main point:
"The notion that the universe was created with purpose begins to disintegrate in the face of a greater understanding about how complex systems can emerge from randomness. And they do so with no further input than a few simple rules."

As I said before, if a god exist, it has settled the rules. And from the rules, you can obtain earth and human race, but a lot of planets and races too. We're not the center of the evolution, not the center of the universe (or the multiverse).

ok....i understand what your telling me, but i dont understand why. i just shared with you the only evidence i have found for their being a god when you previously said you doubted god existed. simple as. then i got told about how illogical it was when it really isn't illogical at all

the odds of our universe forming on its own is 10^124 to 1. If I remember right 10^50 to one is seen as near impossible in maths.
So it is pretty much impossible that the universe happened by chance. That's my logic.

Exactly what i was saying! but apperently not :roll:

This phrase:


is not logically well-formed. the conclusion is not deducible from the premise. That's the illogical in it.

And when I said "I doubt", I really wanna say "I'm very very very sure there's no god. But I'm not 100% sure. just 99,999999999999% sure."
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based on the premise that there needs to be a trillion, trillion trillion, trillion trillion, trillion trillion, trillion trillion, trillion calculations to ensure a universe that can sustain life it IS impossible for it to of happened by accident! WTF can you not understand about that????

First... if there are odds, it's not impossible. It's very improbable, but not impossible.

But where's god in that?

what you can asume is:

based on the premise that there needs to be a trillion, trillion trillion, trillion trillion, trillion trillion, trillion trillion, trillion calculations to ensure a universe that can sustain life it IS very very very very very improbable for it to of happened by accident!

That is logically true. But you can't asume god, multiverse, a lot of creation of the universe til the one we live in, just random, or another explanation we still don't know.

Its not a comment that can be disproven by long meaningless sentences. Even Stephen Hawking says that it is impossible to think about the beginning of the universe without an idea of a "creator". a person doesn't have to be religious to accept it.

well fuck a duck!!! why the fuck did you not say that in the first place????? christ that would have save time would it not???

Right then, lets not get involved with the multiverse!! leave that out. First although you are correct about it not being impossible, but lets face it, those odds are just too great to ignore!! for all pratical ends, it is impossible! I'm sure we could find a mathmatical definition of what an impossible odd is and i have no doubt that this would be one of them.

Second, you are also correct to say, i assumed there to be a god. But lets go along with the idea that a universe which contains life is impossible to have happened by accident?? ok??? We know that it has happened, so what is that made this possible?? It would have to be some kind of being from 'outside the box' so to say, a being commonly know as a god would it not???

What Hawking exactly said was: "So long as the universe had a beginning, we could suppose it had a creator. But if the universe is really completely self- contained, having no boundary or edge, it would have neither beginning nor end: it would simply be. What place, then, for a creator?"

The important fact is that we don't know a lot of things. And science is about facts. That's the reason I'm not really a atheist. We don't have enought facts and knowledge to say if there's a creator or not. But I'm sure that all the gods that people worship were made by human minds.

dude, i don't believe either way as i said earlier, i'm undicided as to weather there is or is not a god!! just incase thats what you were getting at. if its not then ignore this!

Yep, I agree with that. I hope some day that science may explain how it was possible that the universe came to life out of nothing and I hope it can fill the holes in the evolution theory. So that we're saved from all this unnecesary debates that go in circles.

I'm not trying to fight, I just have to say this. You say that the universe just forming on it's own is damn near impossible. While I do agree, that would also mean that some "Kreator" :twisted: just forming out of nowhere would be just as impossible. That's my argument against it. Why is it possible for a "god" to apper out of nothingness, but not the universe? Everything has to have a beginning and an end, even "god". I can't buy into the Alpha and Omega explanation.