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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:11 pm 
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Einherjar

Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:10 am
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Location: USA and Asia
Eyesore wrote:
leee wrote:
Fact: Ruiz is Garbage. So know you are saying since he was a paper champ he should only be put in with people he can beat? That my friend is what is wrong with boxing........

Now THIS is more like the leee I know, not understand what I'm saying! :roll: Ruiz was under no obligation to fight Jones, why did his team agree to the fight? It was stupid. That's what I'm saying. Regardless of whether boxing is corrupt the boxer's trainers and legal team needs to make good choices for the fighter. Fighting faster, smaller, slicker counter-punching fighters is not the right fights for a slow, plodding, heavyweight with limited power. They were bad career moves, and that is part of boxing, always has been.

Quote:
Neither him or Valuev deserved to Win and Ruiz deserved it for other gifts he got. Fuck him, he should have retired when Tua wasted his ass.

A lot of Ruiz's supposed losses that he was given W's for were arguably true wins. People just hate him so much they're in denial. Trust me, I'm no Ruiz fan, either.


I understand what you are saying but basically what you are saying is the whole problem with boxing these days. Protected fighters who fight guys they know they can beat. That is why the Heavies suck so bad.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:43 pm 
leee wrote:
Eyesore wrote:
leee wrote:
Fact: Ruiz is Garbage. So know you are saying since he was a paper champ he should only be put in with people he can beat? That my friend is what is wrong with boxing........

Now THIS is more like the leee I know, not understand what I'm saying! :roll: Ruiz was under no obligation to fight Jones, why did his team agree to the fight? It was stupid. That's what I'm saying. Regardless of whether boxing is corrupt the boxer's trainers and legal team needs to make good choices for the fighter. Fighting faster, smaller, slicker counter-punching fighters is not the right fights for a slow, plodding, heavyweight with limited power. They were bad career moves, and that is part of boxing, always has been.

Quote:
Neither him or Valuev deserved to Win and Ruiz deserved it for other gifts he got. Fuck him, he should have retired when Tua wasted his ass.

A lot of Ruiz's supposed losses that he was given W's for were arguably true wins. People just hate him so much they're in denial. Trust me, I'm no Ruiz fan, either.


I understand what you are saying but basically what you are saying is the whole problem with boxing these days. Protected fighters who fight guys they know they can beat. That is why the Heavies suck so bad.

No, not at all. I don't think boxers should be fighting people they know they can beat, but I don't think these glaring mismatches should be made at all. Ruiz's management made stupid mistakes putting him in there with two fighters that he can't compete with. That was dumb. Ruiz against fighters like Oquendo, Golata, etc., on paper those are competetive fights. Ruiz vs Toney and Jones were not. You knew what was going to happen, though Ruiz did much better against Toney than I expected, he just fell into Toney's trap and fought his fight.

It's not about protecting your fighter, it's about managing a career. Make it challenging, make good fights, don't make stupid fights.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:36 am 
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Einherjar

Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:10 am
Posts: 1763
Location: USA and Asia
Eyesore wrote:
leee wrote:
Eyesore wrote:
leee wrote:
Fact: Ruiz is Garbage. So know you are saying since he was a paper champ he should only be put in with people he can beat? That my friend is what is wrong with boxing........

Now THIS is more like the leee I know, not understand what I'm saying! :roll: Ruiz was under no obligation to fight Jones, why did his team agree to the fight? It was stupid. That's what I'm saying. Regardless of whether boxing is corrupt the boxer's trainers and legal team needs to make good choices for the fighter. Fighting faster, smaller, slicker counter-punching fighters is not the right fights for a slow, plodding, heavyweight with limited power. They were bad career moves, and that is part of boxing, always has been.

Quote:
Neither him or Valuev deserved to Win and Ruiz deserved it for other gifts he got. Fuck him, he should have retired when Tua wasted his ass.

A lot of Ruiz's supposed losses that he was given W's for were arguably true wins. People just hate him so much they're in denial. Trust me, I'm no Ruiz fan, either.


I understand what you are saying but basically what you are saying is the whole problem with boxing these days. Protected fighters who fight guys they know they can beat. That is why the Heavies suck so bad.

No, not at all. I don't think boxers should be fighting people they know they can beat, but I don't think these glaring mismatches should be made at all. Ruiz's management made stupid mistakes putting him in there with two fighters that he can't compete with. That was dumb. Ruiz against fighters like Oquendo, Golata, etc., on paper those are competetive fights. Ruiz vs Toney and Jones were not. You knew what was going to happen, though Ruiz did much better against Toney than I expected, he just fell into Toney's trap and fought his fight.

It's not about protecting your fighter, it's about managing a career. Make it challenging, make good fights, don't make stupid fights.


Totally don't agree. It is about champions fighting the best fighters out there, for their title, period.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:22 am 
leee wrote:
Totally don't agree. It is about champions fighting the best fighters out there, for their title, period.

That's because you're a fan and aren't thinking correctly. These fighters need to make a living, dude.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:34 am 
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Einherjar

Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:10 am
Posts: 1763
Location: USA and Asia
Eyesore wrote:
leee wrote:
Totally don't agree. It is about champions fighting the best fighters out there, for their title, period.

That's because you're a fan and aren't thinking correctly. These fighters need to make a living, dude.


No, you are totally wrong on that, I agree. WTF you think Johnny fought Jones Jr and Toney? So he could make mass bucks..... He made the best choice regardless he could win or not by fighting those two. Think about it some, you will see what I mean. I am a fan, but I am a realist and know the dark side of the sport too. I hate to see youngsters rushed (Davis Reid) but I just demand good fights as a "fan" who helps pay their salaries.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:58 am 
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Eyesore wrote:
leee wrote:
Totally don't agree. It is about champions fighting the best fighters out there, for their title, period.

That's because you're a fan and aren't thinking correctly. These fighters need to make a living, dude.


Eyesore, from a business standpoint, you are correct. But I have to agree with leee. If you can't say at the end of your career that you fought the best and never ducked anyone, regardless of the outcome, then what's the point? Unfortunately, boxing doesn't work like that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:33 am 
afeigel wrote:
Eyesore wrote:
leee wrote:
Totally don't agree. It is about champions fighting the best fighters out there, for their title, period.

That's because you're a fan and aren't thinking correctly. These fighters need to make a living, dude.

Eyesore, from a business standpoint, you are correct. But I have to agree with leee. If you can't say at the end of your career that you fought the best and never ducked anyone, regardless of the outcome, then what's the point? Unfortunately, boxing doesn't work like that.

When the Red Sox play the Yankees don't they make sure Curt Schilling is pitching the night that Randy Johnson is pitching? Or do they put Wakefield in that night, a pitcher that is a knuckle-baller and could potentially give up a lot of runs on a night where Johnson is pitching and typically gives up very little runs? There's an obvious choice here and it's a choice that is made to keep it competitive.

The same thing should happen in boxing, but with boxing it's perceived in a different light because it's one boxer versus one boxer not a team versus a team. In the end it's a business that manages a career or careers and bad business decisions are detrimental to those careers. If Ruiz fought Jones and Toney for money then that is completely retarded, but they fought Jones and Toney because they genuinely felt they could beat them and that was stupid because anyone on the outside looking in knew what was going to happen.

You make GOOD business decisions to make is competitive, match the best with the best, or make the best choices. Making mismatches is not competitive. I understand demanding good fights, I want good fights, too, but a heavyweight fighting two former middleweights does not make for good fights (though I admit they were more entertaining that I expected) and they were clearly bad business/career moves.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:25 am 
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Jeg lever med min foreldre

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:26 pm
Posts: 5736
Location: São Paulo and Lisboa
just saw the rerun of Judgement Day - London/Kendrick vs MNM was pretty cool.

i was getting pretty sick of mnm, and London/Kendrick (LK) are a very entertaining team. theys hould use more ground attacks though, a ddt and stuff like that here and there wouldn't hurt. also it's a shame London doesn't do the Shooting Star Press anymore :/

but still, yeah, a good match!

_________________
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live to crush


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:36 pm 
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Eyesore wrote:
When the Red Sox play the Yankees don't they make sure Curt Schilling is pitching the night that Randy Johnson is pitching? Or do they put Wakefield in that night, a pitcher that is a knuckle-baller and could potentially give up a lot of runs on a night where Johnson is pitching and typically gives up very little runs? There's an obvious choice here and it's a choice that is made to keep it competitive.


Apples and oranges, dude. I'm simply stating that you can't legitimately say you are the best, unless you beat the best. Ducking a guy because you think you'll be at a competitive disadvantage is pussy shit as far as I'm concerned, even if it is a good career move.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:54 pm 
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Karma Whore
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Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:24 pm
Posts: 3233
Location: America
Azrael wrote:
just saw the rerun of Judgement Day - London/Kendrick vs MNM was pretty cool.

i was getting pretty sick of mnm, and London/Kendrick (LK) are a very entertaining team. theys hould use more ground attacks though, a ddt and stuff like that here and there wouldn't hurt. also it's a shame London doesn't do the Shooting Star Press anymore :/

but still, yeah, a good match!


I like Paul London. The dude can pull off some crazy stuff, it's just too bad that the E won't let him do any of it. I saw SmackDown Live about a month ago, and London and Kendrick stole the show.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:05 pm 
afeigel wrote:
Eyesore wrote:
When the Red Sox play the Yankees don't they make sure Curt Schilling is pitching the night that Randy Johnson is pitching? Or do they put Wakefield in that night, a pitcher that is a knuckle-baller and could potentially give up a lot of runs on a night where Johnson is pitching and typically gives up very little runs? There's an obvious choice here and it's a choice that is made to keep it competitive.

Apples and oranges, dude. I'm simply stating that you can't legitimately say you are the best, unless you beat the best. Ducking a guy because you think you'll be at a competitive disadvantage is pussy shit as far as I'm concerned, even if it is a good career move.

It's a catch 22 that is part of boxing. And don't get me wrong, if Ruiz is ducking fighters like Golata and Wlad then that's bullshit, these guys are his size. Fighting Jones was like taking on the Tazmanian Devil and fighting Toney is like fighting a turtle (albeit a soft one). Being the best and fighting the best makes sense, but being stupid is not being the best. Would you suggest MAB go and fight Toney? Of course not.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:59 pm 
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Einherjar

Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:10 am
Posts: 1763
Location: USA and Asia
Taylor/Wright perdictions right now (for those of us that watch boxing and don't cry over Metal Gear Solid stuff)

I want to take Winky bad, just cause I like him but I guess I might have to go with JT, bigger, younger, stronger etc........but Bernanrd basically laid back against him and still should have won at least one of their fights. Winky will throw the jab at him and come forward, can Taylor hit him? I don't know......shit.....

All right I change my mind......Winky by Decision.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:01 pm 
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leee wrote:
Taylor/Wright perdictions right now (for those of us that watch boxing and don't cry over Metal Gear Solid stuff)

I want to take Winky bad, just cause I like him but I guess I might have to go with JT, bigger, younger, stronger etc........but Bernanrd basically laid back against him and still should have won at least one of their fights. Winky will throw the jab at him and come forward, can Taylor hit him? I don't know......shit.....

All right I change my mind......Winky by Decision.


I'm kind of in the same boat. I like Winky, but I heard that he was at the Hopkins fight looking fairly out of shape. Despite this, I have to go with Winky in a unanimous decision because his excellent defense is just too much for Taylor to land many scoring punches. I think this could be the fight of the year so far.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:01 am 
leee wrote:
Taylor/Wright perdictions right now (for those of us that watch boxing and don't cry over Metal Gear Solid stuff)

I want to take Winky bad, just cause I like him but I guess I might have to go with JT, bigger, younger, stronger etc........but Bernanrd basically laid back against him and still should have won at least one of their fights. Winky will throw the jab at him and come forward, can Taylor hit him? I don't know......shit.....

All right I change my mind......Winky by Decision.

Here's the thing, though the Taylor/Hopkins fights were close I think Taylor clearly won each fight. Had Hopkins fought Taylor like he fought Tarver I have a hard time feeling like Taylor could have won, but that's just speculative at this point. I don't think Taylor has been tested yet so I can't assume what he would have done. I mean, he could have pulled out a left hook and KO'd Hopkins for all we know.

What we do know is that he beat Hopkins, a fighter who laid back and even when Hopkins poured it on Taylor still did well, and really well at points, and he did better all around in the second fight. Now with the experience of those two fights he'll surely be better in this fight, plus with the added help of Steward it's a guarantee. If Taylor can beat a laid back Hopkins, he'll easily beat Winky.

Moreover, he's bigger and better at everything but defense, I feel. I predict a late KO by Taylor. If not it'll be a UD for Taylor, 8 rounds to 4.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:42 am 
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Einherjar

Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:10 am
Posts: 1763
Location: USA and Asia
afeigel wrote:
leee wrote:
Taylor/Wright perdictions right now (for those of us that watch boxing and don't cry over Metal Gear Solid stuff)

I want to take Winky bad, just cause I like him but I guess I might have to go with JT, bigger, younger, stronger etc........but Bernanrd basically laid back against him and still should have won at least one of their fights. Winky will throw the jab at him and come forward, can Taylor hit him? I don't know......shit.....

All right I change my mind......Winky by Decision.


I'm kind of in the same boat. I like Winky, but I heard that he was at the Hopkins fight looking fairly out of shape. Despite this, I have to go with Winky in a unanimous decision because his excellent defense is just too much for Taylor to land many scoring punches. I think this could be the fight of the year so far.


Def FOY for purist fans


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:45 am 
leee wrote:
afeigel wrote:
leee wrote:
Taylor/Wright perdictions right now (for those of us that watch boxing and don't cry over Metal Gear Solid stuff)

I want to take Winky bad, just cause I like him but I guess I might have to go with JT, bigger, younger, stronger etc........but Bernanrd basically laid back against him and still should have won at least one of their fights. Winky will throw the jab at him and come forward, can Taylor hit him? I don't know......shit.....

All right I change my mind......Winky by Decision.


I'm kind of in the same boat. I like Winky, but I heard that he was at the Hopkins fight looking fairly out of shape. Despite this, I have to go with Winky in a unanimous decision because his excellent defense is just too much for Taylor to land many scoring punches. I think this could be the fight of the year so far.

Def FOY for purist fans

I don't know, this could potentially be one boring fight if Taylor decides to not press the action.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:20 pm 
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Einherjar

Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:10 am
Posts: 1763
Location: USA and Asia
Eyesore wrote:
leee wrote:
afeigel wrote:
leee wrote:
Taylor/Wright perdictions right now (for those of us that watch boxing and don't cry over Metal Gear Solid stuff)

I want to take Winky bad, just cause I like him but I guess I might have to go with JT, bigger, younger, stronger etc........but Bernanrd basically laid back against him and still should have won at least one of their fights. Winky will throw the jab at him and come forward, can Taylor hit him? I don't know......shit.....

All right I change my mind......Winky by Decision.


I'm kind of in the same boat. I like Winky, but I heard that he was at the Hopkins fight looking fairly out of shape. Despite this, I have to go with Winky in a unanimous decision because his excellent defense is just too much for Taylor to land many scoring punches. I think this could be the fight of the year so far.

Def FOY for purist fans

I don't know, this could potentially be one boring fight if Taylor decides to not press the action.


If he decides not to press the action he will lose. Winky is best coming forward, making guys hit his elbows and gloves and popping them in the face with the jab until the get discouraged (See both Mosley fights and the Trinidad fight). Taylor, if he is smart will use his size and power to back up Winky and take him completley out of his game, if he doesn't he is going to get a beat down lesson like Calzaghe gave Lacy.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:30 pm 
leee wrote:
If he decides not to press the action he will lose. Winky is best coming forward, making guys hit his elbows and gloves and popping them in the face with the jab until the get discouraged (See both Mosley fights and the Trinidad fight). Taylor, if he is smart will use his size and power to back up Winky and take him completley out of his game, if he doesn't he is going to get a beat down lesson like Calzaghe gave Lacy.

No way can Winky beat Taylor in the same manner. No way.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:06 am 
Winky is dead. Taylor looks like a fucking light heavyweight! :shock:

Image

Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 4:19 am 
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Size matters not. Its all in the defense. Winky made Tito look like a timid amateur and blocked over 1000 punches when he fought Sam Soliman. That's enough to sell me on the guy. Taylor does look bigger, but that really shouldn't matter.


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