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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:11 pm 
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Zad wrote:
Eternal Idol wrote:
Zad wrote:
Quote:
Would Ann Coulter behave in such a way? I think not...


Ever seen her on TV? She shouts people down, waves her hands around. Looks like the most annoying bitch ever.


That's typical punditry. Sean Hannity and Al Franken do the same things.


Mmm, but seeing that skinny bitch in that skimpy black evening dress that she wears to EVERY SINGLE INTERVIEW do it is far more annoying.


It's hard to find dresses that fit when you're a man.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:14 pm 
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Eternal Idol wrote:
rio wrote:
Crazy talk.

The USA is worse than any individual African country by a long, long way. As for China, at the first mention of the environment they'd be all like "No, fuck off hippy". At least with the US a difference would be possible if the right guy was elected.


Well, first off, he's really not too far off, believe it or not. Yes, America does produce more pollution at the moment. Seeing how we are basically a continent, of course your pollution levels will be lower.

But China and parts of Africa are on a crash course with industrialization, and if they don't adopt any environmental policies, America's pollution production will pare in comparison. I doubt they will adopt said policies on their own volition.


Regarding China- I think we are agreed that there's little the West can do effectively to change their habits for the moment. But in my view that makes it doubly important for the EU and the US (places which have at least claimed to be interested in reducing carbon emissions) to make sure that they practice what they preach.

Of course a larger country will be expected to pollute more, which is why it's fairer to measure which countries produce more emissions per member of the population. The US still leads any given African country by some distance even when looking at it in that way.

But it's a very important point that you make. In order to lift African countries out of poverty industrialization and improved infrastructure are essential- which means that progress there is likely to come with increased pollution as a side effect.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:16 pm 
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Zad wrote:
Quote:
Would Ann Coulter behave in such a way? I think not...


Ever seen her on TV? She shouts people down, waves her hands around. Looks like the most annoying bitch ever.


Yes but at least she's shouting AT someone. leee's just shouting ABOUT people without any relevance to the debate at hand.

Pish, I say.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:12 pm 
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rio wrote:
Zad wrote:
Quote:
Would Ann Coulter behave in such a way? I think not...


Ever seen her on TV? She shouts people down, waves her hands around. Looks like the most annoying bitch ever.


Yes but at least she's shouting AT someone. leee's just shouting ABOUT people without any relevance to the debate at hand.

Pish, I say.


I am good at that. I think China will run things and emerge as the most dominant power in 25 to 30 years IF and a somewhat big IF, there old guard dies off and the newer generations of politicians there get more and more liberal with their whole Capitalist/Communist tag. Even in 6 years which was the first time I was there and now it has changed so much. None of the industrial zones in Suzhou, Shanghai or Beijing where even built, now it is insane. Cheap labor, skilled technicians, smart people who will work hard for their money = Nation to watch out for.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:41 pm 
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Zad wrote:
20% unemployment? Since when?!

I'm sorry, Lee, but until YOUR country stops doing things like TRYING TO REPEAL INHERITANCE TAX, MY country is a hell of a fucking lot better.

Quote:
social welfare and the fucking dole and free college.


What's wrong with that? Fascist.

And if you'd rather live in Communist China than Europe you are even more of an ignorant fuck than I'd have thought.


"Communist" China is really not that much different then your socialist system for a lot of things. It isn't 1969 anymore and there is no cultural revolution going on. Their communist side only tends to side with personal freedoms and things like that (and that is in fluxation all the time), but as far as business goes it is pure capitolism. Money speaks the loudest there. I honestly can not tell that people are all repressed and shit there, people do the same thing we do, get up, go to work, drink and have fun with friends, hang out, watch movies. As soon as more of the old communist die off they will get even more open. There are a billion people there and they won't be held down forever, especially the more educated they get and the more money they make.

Yes, I would 1000x rather live and work in China (it isn't 1956 anymore, why don't you just call them Red China...ha) then I would in europe. I like China and Chinese people and feel comfortable there so I don't think that makes me an idiot. I don't like Europe (the places I have been except Ireland and Germany ) and don't want to live there. Tell me how my personal prefrence for where I want to live makes me an ignorant fuck? Maybe you are the ignorant fuck if you still refer to China as "Communist China" (What is the non communist China? Taiwan? Do you call Taiwan "Non Communist China? lol) and think it is some backwater nation like North Korea or Somalia.

What is wrong with repealing an inheritance tax? I don't really know what you are talking about though. People in the US don't like to pay taxes, even 1 cent things like for a Light rail or something never pass. We think you should work and get to keep your money and not have to give it to the Government for other people to use or to buy 400 dollar toilet seats for the Army. Narrow minded and wrong? Yeah for somethings I am sure, but it is just the way it is here and people just can't accept it or high taxes for the most part. Me personally? I wish we had more of a system set up somewhat like you all have, especially for medical benefits and education, but that won't happen in this country ever so isn't even worth wishing for.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:02 am 
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leee wrote:
"Communist" China is really not that much different then your socialist system for a lot of things. It isn't 1969 anymore and there is no cultural revolution going on. Their communist side only tends to side with personal freedoms and things like that (and that is in fluxation all the time), but as far as business goes it is pure capitolism. Money speaks the loudest there. I honestly can not tell that people are all repressed and shit there, people do the same thing we do, get up, go to work, drink and have fun with friends, hang out, watch movies. As soon as more of the old communist die off they will get even more open. There are a billion people there and they won't be held down forever, especially the more educated they get and the more money they make.

Yes, I would 1000x rather live and work in China (it isn't 1956 anymore, why don't you just call them Red China...ha) then I would in europe. I like China and Chinese people and feel comfortable there so I don't think that makes me an idiot. I don't like Europe (the places I have been except Ireland and Germany ) and don't want to live there. Tell me how my personal prefrence for where I want to live makes me an ignorant fuck? Maybe you are the ignorant fuck if you still refer to China as "Communist China" (What is the non communist China? Taiwan? Do you call Taiwan "Non Communist China? lol) and think it is some backwater nation like North Korea or Somalia.

What is wrong with repealing an inheritance tax? I don't really know what you are talking about though. People in the US don't like to pay taxes, even 1 cent things like for a Light rail or something never pass. We think you should work and get to keep your money and not have to give it to the Government for other people to use or to buy 400 dollar toilet seats for the Army. Narrow minded and wrong? Yeah for somethings I am sure, but it is just the way it is here and people just can't accept it or high taxes for the most part. Me personally? I wish we had more of a system set up somewhat like you all have, especially for medical benefits and education, but that won't happen in this country ever so isn't even worth wishing for.

I find China's political state to be very confusing, on the one side there is the whole opening up of the economy thing, the embracing of capitolism. But they are still a one party 'communist' state. Its almost an oxymoron.

Zad wrote:
I'm sorry, Lee, but until YOUR country stops doing things like TRYING TO REPEAL INHERITANCE TAX, MY country is a hell of a fucking lot better.

And Zad i'm a tad confused by the inheritance tax thing. You say they're stopping trying to repeal inheritance tax? So that would mean the US are introducing inheritence tax? Thats something we've had in the UK for a while now. You seem to be using this as an argument agaisnt the US. Am i to asume that there was a typo in that sentence?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:04 am 
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there's a mistake in your reading :P

he says that until the us stops to try to reppeal the inheritance tax bla bla bla bla.

you interpreted that as "the us is stopping trying to reppeal".

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 2:10 am 
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Azrael wrote:
there's a mistake in your reading :P

he says that until the us stops to try to reppeal the inheritance tax bla bla bla bla.

you interpreted that as "the us is stopping trying to reppeal".

hahaha! oh ok. Sorry Zad. But i never understood the inheritance tax, seems a bit harsh to tax the familys of the reacently deceased. Kind of like rubbing salt in wounds you know?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 2:22 am 
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even people like Warren Buffet are for the inheritance tax.

Quote:
Buffett has stated that most of his fortune will pass to his Buffett Foundation. He is opposed to the transfer of great fortunes from one generation to the next.


Quote:
Views on taxes

Estate tax

Buffett told The New York Times that the estate tax played a "critical role" in promoting economic growth by helping create a society in which success is based on merit rather than inheritance. Repealing the estate tax, he said, would be equivalent to "choosing the 2020 Olympic team by picking the eldest sons of the gold-medal winners in the 2000 Olympics."



Source: Wikipedia
there's also some nice reading and explanations there reguarding the tax, with arguments for and against.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 2:29 am 
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Azrael wrote:
even people like Warren Buffet are for the inheritance tax.

Quote:
Buffett has stated that most of his fortune will pass to his Buffett Foundation. He is opposed to the transfer of great fortunes from one generation to the next.


Quote:
Views on taxes

Estate tax

Buffett told The New York Times that the estate tax played a "critical role" in promoting economic growth by helping create a society in which success is based on merit rather than inheritance. Repealing the estate tax, he said, would be equivalent to "choosing the 2020 Olympic team by picking the eldest sons of the gold-medal winners in the 2000 Olympics."



Source: Wikipedia
there's also some nice reading and explanations there reguarding the tax, with arguments for and against.

What if your grandparents left your 10000, its a lot to most familys but fuck all to a goverment. Its this kind of taxation i was getting at. But i do believe very soon after the tax was introduced here there was a threshold that had to be reached before taxation could occour. That would seem ok. But then it also depends on how the money was accumulated. If it was anything like the old peerage system in the house of Lord where a family was qiven status as a gift, ie. a title, or land, or both, 200 years ago then i can understand that this tax would try and redistribute some of this wealth. But what about entrepreneurs who make their money fairly and who have paid taxs all their life? Is it fair that they should have to pay tax twice?? I don't think so.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:29 am 
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stuartn15ted wrote:
leee wrote:
"Communist" China is really not that much different then your socialist system for a lot of things. It isn't 1969 anymore and there is no cultural revolution going on. Their communist side only tends to side with personal freedoms and things like that (and that is in fluxation all the time), but as far as business goes it is pure capitolism. Money speaks the loudest there. I honestly can not tell that people are all repressed and shit there, people do the same thing we do, get up, go to work, drink and have fun with friends, hang out, watch movies. As soon as more of the old communist die off they will get even more open. There are a billion people there and they won't be held down forever, especially the more educated they get and the more money they make.

Yes, I would 1000x rather live and work in China (it isn't 1956 anymore, why don't you just call them Red China...ha) then I would in europe. I like China and Chinese people and feel comfortable there so I don't think that makes me an idiot. I don't like Europe (the places I have been except Ireland and Germany ) and don't want to live there. Tell me how my personal prefrence for where I want to live makes me an ignorant fuck? Maybe you are the ignorant fuck if you still refer to China as "Communist China" (What is the non communist China? Taiwan? Do you call Taiwan "Non Communist China? lol) and think it is some backwater nation like North Korea or Somalia.

What is wrong with repealing an inheritance tax? I don't really know what you are talking about though. People in the US don't like to pay taxes, even 1 cent things like for a Light rail or something never pass. We think you should work and get to keep your money and not have to give it to the Government for other people to use or to buy 400 dollar toilet seats for the Army. Narrow minded and wrong? Yeah for somethings I am sure, but it is just the way it is here and people just can't accept it or high taxes for the most part. Me personally? I wish we had more of a system set up somewhat like you all have, especially for medical benefits and education, but that won't happen in this country ever so isn't even worth wishing for.

I find China's political state to be very confusing, on the one side there is the whole opening up of the economy thing, the embracing of capitolism. But they are still a one party 'communist' state. Its almost an oxymoron.

Zad wrote:
I'm sorry, Lee, but until YOUR country stops doing things like TRYING TO REPEAL INHERITANCE TAX, MY country is a hell of a fucking lot better.

And Zad i'm a tad confused by the inheritance tax thing. You say they're stopping trying to repeal inheritance tax? So that would mean the US are introducing inheritence tax? Thats something we've had in the UK for a while now. You seem to be using this as an argument agaisnt the US. Am i to asume that there was a typo in that sentence?


Yeah they are a total oxymoron, it makes it a wild place


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:59 am 
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hm, you have a point there Stuart.

Taxation only occurs past a certain amount of money.
a way to get past the tax would be to give it to charity, which is positive as well as it helps other people. the person who is really paying the tax, i think, is the receiver, and one could say that they haven't really worked for that money, they money they'll inherit.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:16 pm 
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Taking money that someone doesn't need it anymore, what's the problem? Generally speaking children of wealthy parents grow up to be wealthy themselves, so inheritance tax is the simplest and fairest method we have of redistribution.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 2:00 pm 
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I hope everyone realizes that the estate tax only applied to estates with values of over ten million dollars, and that the democrats offered to raise that value to one hundred million dollars or below exempt from the tax, but the republicans stonewalled it and it died in congress.

Does everyone know that? I hope everyone knows that.

I hope everyone realizes that only 2% of estates were taxed under the government's estate tax prior to its repeal because the republicans are opening their assholes wide for the rich.

Does everyone know that? I hope everyone knows that.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 2:24 pm 
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Er, I don't know why you guys keep calling it "Inheritance Tax" when clearly it's real name is SOCIALIST DEATH TAX


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 7:01 pm 
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rio wrote:
Taking money that someone doesn't need it anymore, what's the problem? Generally speaking children of wealthy parents grow up to be wealthy themselves, so inheritance tax is the simplest and fairest method we have of redistribution.


Why should peoples wealth be redistributed? It is there money, they earned it or their parents did, it shouldn't go to other people. People can make their own as far as I am concerned. See that is really the whole problem with things like that. I find it funny that we need to find a "fair' way to redistribute something that belongs to one person....


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 7:17 pm 
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but are you against the inheritance tax or taxes in general?


and by taxes i mean taxes as a way of redistribution, not taxes to contribute to the functioning of the state... the later i'm sure you'll agree is necessary.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:34 pm 
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Azrael wrote:
but are you against the inheritance tax or taxes in general?


and by taxes i mean taxes as a way of redistribution, not taxes to contribute to the functioning of the state... the later i'm sure you'll agree is necessary.


I am against taking what other people have earned fairly (or their parents) and giving it away to others. Inheritance has already been taxed when it was orginaly earned, it shouldn't be subjected to double taxing every 50 or 60 years when it gets passed on, I honestly think that is crap. Yeah, some people are rich, some people aren't, it is life, get over it.

Taxes are a necessary evil. I do wish we had some kind of socialist medical program though. I always get so pissed off when I go to the Doctor in Taiwan and even without insurance I can get a full visit and perscription for like 13 bucks, I went in Malaysia to a Health Clinic and it was like 8 bucks and the level of care was just as good as what I got in the US. In fact I almost always go to the Doctor in Taiwan if I need something and never use my insurance in the US, copays are shit, etc. My ex-GF, here job gave her access to Taiwan's National Health care and she could put her entire family on it. US stuff is such bullshit for Health Care.

No I don't believe redistrubution of wealth. Sorry if that makes me a bastard but what is mine is mine and I work hard for it, if I want to give to charity I do that on my own. Of course though I think there needs to Gov welfare programs and things like that. It is really a catch 22 for me and depends on what it is for and things like that. On one hand I will say yes, use my taxes so people can learn to read and write and get a job and stuff, and on the other hand, no I don't want my money going to fund art programs in college.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:17 pm 
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I like how many times leee disagreed with himself in that post lol


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:28 pm 
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Jeg lever med min foreldre

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leeeeeee i understand that it can suck to pay for someone else or someone else's kids to go to college, but on the other hand if you get sick some healthy guy would be paying for your medical care.

the tax door swings both ways, i guess.

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