Evanescence - The Open Door (#3568)

Cenotaph · **Posted:** Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:20 pm

anubus777 wrote:

Cenotaph Wrote:

I might take the time to say though that I don't think the score of 60 seems to fit well with the review in general.

Ross’s Reply:

Did you read the review? ‘The Open Door’ has just gone platinum in the US. How can I justify giving an album that went platinum a score of 30 and a Crap Of The Month Skeleton like what I was going to do?? Granted a lot of owners of ‘Fallen’ will buy it blind expecting something as powerful and haunting as ‘Fallen’ and I will believe they will be disappointed. But I digress, if an album has gone platinum, surely it would be wrong for me to come straight out and say it’s crap – One million people can’t be wrong; can they??? As I also said in my review, all the girls sitting on the stairs crying at the end of a party, all those who’s hearts are broken when they get dumped and persons of that ilk are going to love this album. As for listening for ENJOYMENT, I don’t think so!

Yes I did read the review. I don't think that the reviewer should take into consideration how much the album at hand sold when giving it a score. In my mind a review should reflect the reviewers opinion on an album and it's music, not the masses. The quotation system used on this page says that an album given 60 is fair, and this do not fit with the overall feelings of negativity towards the album that I sense in the review.

My point is that I disagree that album sales should be any factor at all when quoting a record. I do applaude you for taking the time to defend your review though.

The_Voice · **Posted:** Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:23 pm

anubus777 wrote:

Ross’s Reply:

How can I justify giving an album that went platinum a score of 30 and a Crap Of The Month Skeleton like what I was going to do??

Then why you didnt?, were you scared or something? did Eyesore or anyone from the team threatened you? this is a metal site, please dont be such a wuss.

Youve lost all of your credibility, you honestly think that sales has any relation with the quality of the music? dude thats really fucked up.

Eyesore · **Posted:** Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:41 pm

anubus777 wrote:

You have said I have not reviewed the album. Okay here it is in a nutshell – 90 percent of the album is a platform for Amy Lee to vent her spleen on all those who have dumped her. There are no crunchy, chugging riffs with memorable choruses only Amy singing along on her piano. She even does the backing vocals. Sorry I can’t say too much about the Guitars, Bass and Drums as they weren’t used enough to form an opinion. – If you’ve read my review carefully, you may have noticed that all I have just said is in there; you just chose to ignore it and accuse me of Amy bashing!

First off, suggesting Amy only plays the piano here—like these are all piano ballads—is ridiculous and it's completely misleading—because it's wrong. The piano and electronic backdrops were also on Fallen; so why is it a problem now?

Secondly, Evanescence was always just Amy Lee and Ben Moody. They both wrote all the music, except "Tourniquet"—which was originally a Soul Embraced song (Rocky Gray's semi-death metal band). To suggest she's not giving "the band" enough airtime is ridiculous. She's 50% of the previous version of Evanescence. Ben Moody quit; thus Amy Lee becomes the band. You expected nothing to change? You wanted Fallen Pt. 2 and you didn't get it. You blame Amy Lee—and she is clearly the reason it wasn't Fallen Pt. 2—but you shouldn't have written an editorial deconstruction of her and her piano "[venting] her spleen on all those who have dumped her"—which is one person, one song, by the way.

derncare · **Joined:** Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:40 am **Posts:** 731

Didn't St. Anger go Platinum or somewhere close?

Crap is crap.

Yes, a million people can be mistaken. A million sales doesn't mean a million people liked it anyway. I'm sure many bought it due to the last album without even hearing this one first.

Eyesore · **Posted:** Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:01 am

derncare wrote:

Didn't St. Anger go Platinum or somewhere close?

Crap is crap.

Yes, a million people can be mistaken. A million sales doesn't mean a million people liked it anyway. I'm sure many bought it due to the last album without even hearing this one first.

But this is a great album; it's just not much like Fallen. It's more mature, more grandiose; it's much, much deeper than Fallen as well. "More of the same" and "bare bones" does not describe this album in the least.

Considering Ross liked Fallen: if The Open Door was "more of the same" wouldn't you expect a better review? It's a VERY different album.

derncare · **Joined:** Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:40 am **Posts:** 731

I haven't actually heard it. My point was that a reviewer shouldn't raise his score due to sales. If he thinks it's crap, he should just put the score he feels it deserves. He should give it a 30 if he really feels that way.

leee · **Posted:** Wed Nov 29, 2006 4:25 am

Yeah Ken, you gave Maiden a 50 which is total horse shit (and you know it). If you judge on that scale anything by Evanesance shouldn't even get about a 10.........

I thought the review was fine, told me that they couldn't follow up with what they did on Fallen (which I own), and that perhaps Amy Lee, awesome voice or not can't carry a band on her own. I heard the songs you posted awhile back and I would def tend to agree with this review. She could never touch Euro acts like After Forever, Mortal Love and others anyways and when you lose your pop sensibilities (which from what you posted awhile back they did) then you are really left with a half ass attempt at being serious. Insulting or not the review told me exactly what I needed to know, and it looks like EXACTLY what I would write about the latest Lacuna Coil pile of crap.

Eyesore · **Posted:** Wed Nov 29, 2006 4:40 am

leee wrote:

Yeah Ken, you gave Maiden a 50 which is total horse shit (and you know it). If you judge on that scale anything by Evanesance shouldn't even get about a 10.........

Two different bands/albums, dillhole. The latest Maiden deserves a 50. Cut every song in half and you have a decent album.

Goat · **Posted:** Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:36 am

So friggin' what she's venting spleen? At least she wrote the stuff herself, which is more than you can say for a lot of the current pop crap. Looking at Evanescence from a metal viewpoint, of course it's not going to be any good. You have to (deep breath) open your mind a little.

Radagast · **Posted:** Wed Nov 29, 2006 4:59 pm

Eyesore wrote:

derncare wrote:

Didn't St. Anger go Platinum or somewhere close?

Crap is crap.

Yes, a million people can be mistaken. A million sales doesn't mean a million people liked it anyway. I'm sure many bought it due to the last album without even hearing this one first.

But this is a great album; it's just not much like Fallen. It's more mature, more grandiose; it's much, much deeper than Fallen as well. "More of the same" and "bare bones" does not describe this album in the least.

Jeffrey 'The Dude' Lebowski wrote:

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man

Point being that if Ross thought the album was shite he should just have give it the 30 regardless of the sales figures. I'm in genuine disbelief that on a site of this calibre that sort of thing can be a determining factor on the album's score.

Example: let's say you gave it an 80 (I've no idea what you gave it, probably something higher

) - you're not going to jack that up to a 90 based on the sales, are you?

Also: STFUPP ZAD
!!!!!!

Eyesore · **Posted:** Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:51 pm

I disagree with the score, too. I'm not defending the score or the reasoning behind it.

My comment was directed more at the notion that people just bought it without hearing it.

Al@metalreviews · **Posted:** Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:58 pm

Evanescence aside, who I really don't care about (put those big guns away Ken, they're just not my thing):

I have to agree to strongly disagree with the album sales = scoring thing. If something is a steaming pile of donkey turd which happens to sell 10 million copies, that does not stop it from being a steaming pile of donkey turd.

If sales were taken into account 50 cent and the crazy frog would be hitting the mid 90's on this site. At that point I'd kill myself (I'd take you all with me of course)

Sales and popularity should NEVER have any bearing on a rating. The same goes for rating a good album badly just because it's popular.

Eyesore · **Posted:** Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:13 pm

Big guns? Pffft! I don't mind if people dislike this album; what bugs me is when someone presents fictional information as fact. Otherwise anything I say of a differing opinion is simply normal music banter.

Al@metalreviews · **Posted:** Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:56 pm

Eyesore wrote:

Big guns? Pffft! I don't mind if people dislike this album; what bugs me is when someone presents fictional information as fact. Otherwise anything I say of a differing opinion is simply normal music banter.

I was just ragging you dude

Eyesore · **Posted:** Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:25 pm

Al@metalreviews wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

Big guns? Pffft! I don't mind if people dislike this album; what bugs me is when someone presents fictional information as fact. Otherwise anything I say of a differing opinion is simply normal music banter.

I was just ragging you dude

leee · **Posted:** Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:47 pm

Eyesore wrote:

leee wrote:

Yeah Ken, you gave Maiden a 50 which is total horse shit (and you know it). If you judge on that scale anything by Evanesance shouldn't even get about a 10.........

Two different bands/albums, dillhole. The latest Maiden deserves a 50. Cut every song in half and you have a decent album.

Yes, and it deserves that score based on the fact YOU don't like them right, if you were a Maiden fan you would have scored it much higher just like you would an Evanesance album. The review was fine, it really is just pop crap, on fallen they did it good, they obviously failed here.......

madr0x · **Joined:** Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:52 am **Posts:** 1

I've been a long time visiter to this site and have never seen such a bad review as this one. As many have stated the review hardly talks about the album but rather bashes amy lee and then ends up giving it 60 because its sold so much that it must be ok. If thats the case why review it all?

Also I find it hard to belive that you even listen to the whole album with coments that its just amy and her piano. The Open Door does have more ballads then Fallen but over all its a much more rocking.

Eyesore · **Posted:** Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:49 pm

leee wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

leee wrote:

Yeah Ken, you gave Maiden a 50 which is total horse shit (and you know it). If you judge on that scale anything by Evanesance shouldn't even get about a 10.........

Two different bands/albums, dillhole. The latest Maiden deserves a 50. Cut every song in half and you have a decent album.

Yes, and it deserves that score based on the fact YOU don't like them right, if you were a Maiden fan you would have scored it much higher just like you would an Evanesance album. The review was fine, it really is just pop crap, on fallen they did it good, they obviously failed here.......

I am a Maiden fan. :lame:

I score albums based on what I feel is its musical merit.

The review was "fine" to you because you don't like this album; thus you're not concerned that it's actually not a review of the album.

derncare · **Joined:** Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:40 am **Posts:** 731

The prediction was 4 pages. We're only up to 2 so far. I'm disappointed :wink:

Having still not heard the album and not really having an opinion on Evanescence either way, I figure I can look at the review pretty objectively. I don't think it's very good because of his approach to the material and the fact that outside influences affected the score.

leee · **Posted:** Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:18 am

Eyesore wrote:

leee wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

leee wrote:

Yeah Ken, you gave Maiden a 50 which is total horse shit (and you know it). If you judge on that scale anything by Evanesance shouldn't even get about a 10.........

Two different bands/albums, dillhole. The latest Maiden deserves a 50. Cut every song in half and you have a decent album.

Yes, and it deserves that score based on the fact YOU don't like them right, if you were a Maiden fan you would have scored it much higher just like you would an Evanesance album. The review was fine, it really is just pop crap, on fallen they did it good, they obviously failed here.......

I am a Maiden fan. :lame:

I score albums based on what I feel is its musical merit.

The review was "fine" to you because you don't like this album; thus you're not concerned that it's actually not a review of the album.

I know that........

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Evanescence - The Open Door (#3568)

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