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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:08 am 
MetalWizard wrote:
Actually Eyesore, the reason I keep coming back to Moody being the crux of "Fallen"s sound is due a few written and taped interviews with Amy Lee shortly after his strange departure. She directly laid the blame on him for the strong guitar role in the music and the shortened radio friendly song lengths. She said she was looking forward to writing the new Evanescence without him because she felt stifled by him in the writing process. It would seem that Moody had a strong will and knew what he wanted these collaborations with her to sound like. She felt like she was constantly losing to him in the studio. Further, the record guys seemed to always fall on Moody's side. Now with Moody gone and the success of "Fallen" she was free to do as she pleased.

Well, if what you say is true—I've not read that—then I'd say the reason he's not in the band is because he wanted a very radio-friendly band and Amy Lee didn't. Maybe this is a transition album and the next one will be something people can really dig. I really like both Fallen and The Open Door, so I expect good things in the future either way. I do, however, think it very telling that Moody has since written music with Kelly Clarkson, Lindsey Lohan, and Avril Lavigne. I think that shows you where he stood; and The Open Door shows you where Amy Lee stood. Maybe Amy Lee had no intention of being the next Kelly Clarkson?


Last edited by Eyesore on Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:26 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:10 am 
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Einherjar

Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:10 am
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Location: USA and Asia
metalNESS wrote:
MetalWizard wrote:
derncare wrote:
MetalWizard wrote:
Just like the Energizer bunny.........

you keep going and going and going...................................


And so do you.

You're quite capable of letting go as well. He is not out to get you. He just likes to debate music, and Eyesore is one to bring everything to the table when he does, despite the heated four pagers that sometimes result :wink: If you don't like engaging in debates like that, it's fine, but you don't have to get upset with those who do, and if you keep responding, you're inviting further conversation on the subject. Don't take things so personal and you can have a good time here :)



Thanks for your 2 cents....I won't spend it all in one place.

Here's the rub. It's fine to debate the material on any given CD. I don't subscribe to the theory of implying that someone is flat out wrong for having their own opinion. That is what I feel is being levied here. I get the sense that senior Eyesore is in the habit of making people feel inferior or somehow wrong for having an opposing view. That's all I'm trying communicate here.

A better reply to someone's comments would be: I'm sorry you feel that way. I like the CD for whatever reasons.....etc. Or perhaps just post a comment describing your own personal views that don't directly take someone one. It's fine that anyone here likes this CD. I don't fault them for it. However ,it in no way makes one superior because they like it.

That's all I'm saying. I don't need my comments dissected like a frog in biology class. It's really pointless.

Ok?

You need to go back to English class.


Hey MetalWizard, don't let these guys bother you. Ken is cool and he just likes to argue his points, don't take it personal.

But be warned, every other person on here, if they don't like your post they will ignore everything you say and tell you that your English sucks, ignore that too. Apparently this is like some psuedo intellect metal nerd site at times....

Argue with Ken, he is fun and worth the effort, the rest......don't worry about too much


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:16 am 
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Einherjar

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Oh yean and if you are new and argue with Ken, all of the kids will jump all over you too....expect it, swat them like the gnats they are and go on with your destruction of Ken.....lol

I made 14 year olds say they wanted to punch me, so when you can top that you will have made it.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:58 am 
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Metal Slave
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Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:04 pm
Posts: 75
leee wrote:
Oh yean and if you are new and argue with Ken, all of the kids will jump all over you too....expect it, swat them like the gnats they are and go on with your destruction of Ken.....lol

I made 14 year olds say they wanted to punch me, so when you can top that you will have made it.


LMMFAO!!

Now that is called having personality! Those are fantastic achievements I hope one day to rival. Thank you for the kind words and the heads up on the goings on in here. My feathers truly are not ruffled. Like I said this back problem has been kicking my ass! Everyone in my house hopes I see a doctor and get good painkillers soon. They're all tired of listening to me bitch!


I love metal. I always have, The ignorance on Blabbermouth had worn me out. It probably helped make me so damn defensive. I was really hoping to find intelligent metal conversation here. I think I have.

I look forward to "debating" with everyone. :)

......now it's back to my english book....damn grammar!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:27 am 
leee wrote:
Oh yean and if you are new and argue with Ken, all of the kids will jump all over you too....expect it, swat them like the gnats they are and go on with your destruction of Ken.....lol

I made 14 year olds say they wanted to punch me, so when you can top that you will have made it.

That's just you, though, because you're a fag. When Zad and Stefan would argue with me they would all take their side.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:28 am 
MetalWizard wrote:
I look forward to "debating" with everyone. :)

Prepare to lose! :dio:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:42 am 
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Metal Slave
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Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:04 pm
Posts: 75
Eyesore wrote:
MetalWizard wrote:
I look forward to "debating" with everyone. :)

Prepare to lose! :dio:



:lol: I think it will be quite the contrary :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:39 am 
MetalWizard wrote:
Eyesore wrote:
MetalWizard wrote:
I look forward to "debating" with everyone. :)

Prepare to lose! :dio:

:lol: I think it will be quite the contrary :lol:

:lame:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:10 am 
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MetalReviews Staff

Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:05 am
Posts: 30
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Not only am I a crap reviewer, I can't manage the intricacies of the Forum HTML Wizardry. Leee said he once made 14 year olds want to punch him and to top that I will have made it! YES!!! I now have a goal to achieve.

Back to Evanescence, there were a couple of anomalies in some of Eyesore's posts. In his track by track content breakdown he completely missed mentioning guitars in 'Fallen'. I can see why they weren't mentioned in 'The Open Door' - there wasn't enough guitaring to mention! I know there was guitaring on 'Fallen' cos one time I was Teching for a band and was blasting out the opening riff for 'Bring Me To Life' as a quick guitar check and the band asked if I'd play it for their walk-on intro.

The other thing I think he never did his homework on was Band Members. He said Evanescence was Moody and Lee; Moody left leaving Lee. When I review something I reserch it as far as possible and I'm sure I read somewhere that yes, Evanescence originally was Moody and Lee and that Rocky Gray, John LeCompt and William Boyd were classed as Session Musicians. However, when they had to tour and such, they encorporated Gray, LeCompt and Boyd into the fold as full time members of Evanescence. Proof of this was the departure of William Boyd; if he wasn't really a member of Evanescence, only a session player, why was there an anouncement on MTV that he was leaving and it was Amy Lee herself that delivered the anouncement?

Something I agree on is someone said Amy Lee is trying to sound European. When I first heard 'Fallen' I did think Evanescence was a European band. Perhaps she should try out for Nightwish.

Ding, ding - Round Two!!!!

Oh yes, before I forget, the Shoegazer moniker applies to my guitar playing style not my lack of confidence. You see, like my reviewing, my guitar playing is crap, even after 30 odd years, and I still have to watch what my left hand is doing - hence me always looking down whilst I'm playing, therefore gazing at my shoes!


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:42 am 
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Eyesore wrote:
leee wrote:
Oh yean and if you are new and argue with Ken, all of the kids will jump all over you too....expect it, swat them like the gnats they are and go on with your destruction of Ken.....lol

I made 14 year olds say they wanted to punch me, so when you can top that you will have made it.

That's just you, though, because you're a fag. When Zad and Stefan would argue with me they would all take their side.


Except when it's bands noone else likes, then we take your side. I do, anyways.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:38 pm 
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MetalWizard wrote:
......now it's back to my english book....damn grammar!


You do realize he was joking right? Joking, as in haha, funny. If it makes you feel better, just throw it back at him. Our favorite cornhusker who recently had his balls placed in a permanent vice similar to the one I wear can take it, trust me.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:44 pm 
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anubus777 wrote:
Oh yes, before I forget, the Shoegazer moniker applies to my guitar playing style not my lack of confidence. You see, like my reviewing, my guitar playing is crap, even after 30 odd years, and I still have to watch what my left hand is doing - hence me always looking down whilst I'm playing, therefore gazing at my shoes!

I suppose you know that there is a genre called Shoegazer? Do you like it? My Bloody Valentine is the genre's best known band.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:08 pm 
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Metal Slave
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Adam wrote:
MetalWizard wrote:
......now it's back to my english book....damn grammar!


You do realize he was joking right? Joking, as in haha, funny. If it makes you feel better, just throw it back at him. Our favorite cornhusker who recently had his balls placed in a permanent vice similar to the one I wear can take it, trust me.




Yep...I realize that it was meant as a joke. :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:05 pm 
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Ist Krieg

Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:07 am
Posts: 6519
Location: USoA
Misha wrote:
anubus777 wrote:
Oh yes, before I forget, the Shoegazer moniker applies to my guitar playing style not my lack of confidence. You see, like my reviewing, my guitar playing is crap, even after 30 odd years, and I still have to watch what my left hand is doing - hence me always looking down whilst I'm playing, therefore gazing at my shoes!

I suppose you know that there is a genre called Shoegazer? Do you like it? My Bloody Valentine is the genre's best known band.


Yeah, I thought I was making a clever comment but instead it totally misfired. :sad:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:20 pm 
anubus777 wrote:
Back to Evanescence, there were a couple of anomalies in some of Eyesore's posts. In his track by track content breakdown he completely missed mentioning guitars in 'Fallen'. I can see why they weren't mentioned in 'The Open Door' - there wasn't enough guitaring to mention! I know there was guitaring on 'Fallen' cos one time I was Teching for a band and was blasting out the opening riff for 'Bring Me To Life' as a quick guitar check and the band asked if I'd play it for their walk-on intro.

There was no anomaly because I wasn't trying to convince anyone there was guitar on either album. But if you had paid attention you would have noted that the FEW songs that contain no guitar I put the word "only" before piano or electronics, or whatever. Again, to suggest The Open Door has no guitars is just as ridiculous as some of your other comments. For instance, you called The Open Door "more of the same," but then proceed to say its not like Fallen. Contradiction number one. You then say the album is "bare bones," which is contradiction number two considering you said it was "more of the same".

I think this review is a mish-mash of incoherent thoughts.

Quote:
The other thing I think he never did his homework on was Band Members. He said Evanescence was Moody and Lee; Moody left leaving Lee. When I review something I reserch it as far as possible and I'm sure I read somewhere that yes, Evanescence originally was Moody and Lee and that Rocky Gray, John LeCompt and William Boyd were classed as Session Musicians. However, when they had to tour and such, they encorporated Gray, LeCompt and Boyd into the fold as full time members of Evanescence. Proof of this was the departure of William Boyd; if he wasn't really a member of Evanescence, only a session player, why was there an anouncement on MTV that he was leaving and it was Amy Lee herself that delivered the anouncement?

Come on, this is retarded and you know it. Iced Earth is Jon Schaffer. Zakk Wylde is Black Label Society. Do they classify the other members that play with them as "session musicians" just because Zakk and Jon write 99.9% of the music? No. They don't. Band members and contributing songwriters are two totally different things.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:08 pm 
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Y'know what I've just noticed and I think is very funny - Ha Ha funny that is - Evanescence label is called - Wind-Up Entertainment. Now is that ironic or what!!!!!!

Just thought I'd change tack there.

Also that bit about the Shoegazer Genre - They do it out of choice, I do it out of necessity. I'm even worse now that I'm older and the fingers don't go where they ought to anymore. I think I'll go back to playing bass, nobody really notices when you fuck up playing bass.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:30 am 
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Quote:
Come on, this is retarded and you know it. Iced Earth is Jon Schaffer. Zakk Wylde is Black Label Society. Do they classify the other members that play with them as "session musicians" just because Zakk and Jon write 99.9% of the music? No. They don't. Band members and contributing songwriters are two totally different things.


Eyesore, I hope you didn't get asked too many awkward questions when you rolled up at the hospital with a self inflicted gunshot wound to the foot! What you wrote shows that you have completely missed the point of what I've been saying about Amy Lee using Evanescence as a soapbox to cry and moan about people who have dumped on her. As an Iced Earth fan I know all about Jon Schaffer's autocratic, my way or the highway, anal retentive attitude about what goes on in Iced Earth. BUT, to my knowledge he has only written one song about anybody close to him and that was 'Watching Over Me' which was about a friend of his who was killed in a motorcycle accident. I'm sure even you will agree with me on this that this song is definitely not a moan about somebody that's dumped on him. Even on that song, the rest of the band is fully involved in its delivery - He doesn't play the guitar solo on it, he doesn't sing the lyrics and he doesn't even give one of his trademark triplet rhythm guitaring solos on it. As you used Jon Schaffer as an example, could you give me any other instances where he has used the band to piss and moan about someone who has dumped on him, and with the revolving door line up changes Iced Earth has had I'm sure there have been plenty of times he could have done it. Or, can you tell me on which album he has denegrated the rest of the band to a supporting role while he took front and centre to whine and moan about people that have pissed him off??

Zakk Wylde and Black Label Society is a different kettle of fish and you know it. I totally agree with you that Zakk writes 99.9% of BLS material, does all the singing and guitar widdly-wankery. But again I have to ask you, when has he ever used BLS as a soapbox to piss and moan about someone who has pissed him off - I'm not talking about government here, I mean a proper person or persons.

While we are on about it, let's look at Deicide. Do you agree that Glen Benton is the main man of that band? Has he not pissed and moaned about the Hoffman brothers at every opportunity for what seems like forever? Yet is 'The Stench Of Redemption' chock-full of songs on how the Hoffmans have dumped on him - Nope.

So you see, you really haven't got the gist of what I've been on about. Sure Amy Lee is frontperson of Evanescence and she writes most of the songs and stuff. My review reflected that she used the band as a soapbox to lash out at people who have pissed her off. Since this debate began, I have scoured the interweb for articles and reviews to see if anyone agrees with my review; and guess what:

Quote:
Since we last heard from the lead singer of Evanescence, with her previous album "Fallen" in 2003, she has lost more than just a few people who were close to her: during the tour for that album, Ben Moody, lead guitarist, co-founder and co-songwriter, left the band suddenly; William Boyd, the bassist, did the same three years later; and earlier this year, Lee ended a lengthy relationship with Shaun Morgan of the band Seether in a messy public breakup.

Lee alone is the main event on "The Open Door," the newest album from the band. Tumultuous relationships and loneliness manifest themselves clearly on the tracks, all of which are written by Lee in the first person. It feels as if each one is cathartic for her, and she seems to have a song for everyone.

"You know you live to break me," she accuses in "Sweet Sacrifice," apparently addressing Moody. "Are you still too weak to survive your mistakes?" A number of tracks appear to be aimed at her ex, especially the first single, "Call Me When You're Sober," and a piano number entitled "Lithium," which is sung from his apparently pathetic perspective. And in "Like You," Lee addresses her sister, who died in childhood, singing that she longs "to be like you, lie cold in the ground like you."

Rather than remain subsumed in the music and part of a larger experience, Lee grabs the reins of the musical production, making the album her own and relegating the rest of the band into obscurity. It is her voice that really gives Evanescence its edge. Her attitude on this album is more aggressive and less vulnerable than before. "I won't be held down by who I used to be," she sings in "Weight of the World."

Lee's predominance isn't always a blessing. Lacking her writing partner from the previous album, she collaborates with her new guitarist, Terry Balsamo, on a number of tracks. While she is clearly happy with the innovation, thanking her new partner in the liner notes as "someone who could finish my musical thoughts," fans might not be as thrilled. The musical content in this album leaves something to be desired.


Whoa, could have written it myself, only there's too many big words in it for me. (WTF does 'subsumed' mean??) There's more out there and many praise the album but almost without exception they all conclude that Amy Lee is singing about people who were close to her and have pissed her off. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised is Shaun Morgan sued her ass for defimation and insinuating he was a drunkard using 'Call Me When You're Sober' to do it.

My review was never about Amy Lee being the frontperson and writing most of the material for 'The Open Door'. simply the fact that she used Evanescence for something that I feel was personal and if she wanted to get all that personal shit off her chest she should have done it as a solo project!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:55 am 
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Again, what does it matter what she writes about? There are plenty of things you could be writing reviews like that about that deserve it far more. Doesn't Gwen Stefani have a new record out? At least concentrate on what matters - the music. We don't expect a review of Iron Maiden telling us how old they all are and who has the better-looking daughter! Standards to be upheld, man, standards!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:13 pm 
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So, how about that local sports team?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:42 pm 
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Einherjar

Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:10 am
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anubus777 wrote:
Quote:
Come on, this is retarded and you know it. Iced Earth is Jon Schaffer. Zakk Wylde is Black Label Society. Do they classify the other members that play with them as "session musicians" just because Zakk and Jon write 99.9% of the music? No. They don't. Band members and contributing songwriters are two totally different things.


Eyesore, I hope you didn't get asked too many awkward questions when you rolled up at the hospital with a self inflicted gunshot wound to the foot! What you wrote shows that you have completely missed the point of what I've been saying about Amy Lee using Evanescence as a soapbox to cry and moan about people who have dumped on her. As an Iced Earth fan I know all about Jon Schaffer's autocratic, my way or the highway, anal retentive attitude about what goes on in Iced Earth. BUT, to my knowledge he has only written one song about anybody close to him and that was 'Watching Over Me' which was about a friend of his who was killed in a motorcycle accident. I'm sure even you will agree with me on this that this song is definitely not a moan about somebody that's dumped on him. Even on that song, the rest of the band is fully involved in its delivery - He doesn't play the guitar solo on it, he doesn't sing the lyrics and he doesn't even give one of his trademark triplet rhythm guitaring solos on it. As you used Jon Schaffer as an example, could you give me any other instances where he has used the band to piss and moan about someone who has dumped on him, and with the revolving door line up changes Iced Earth has had I'm sure there have been plenty of times he could have done it. Or, can you tell me on which album he has denegrated the rest of the band to a supporting role while he took front and centre to whine and moan about people that have pissed him off??

Zakk Wylde and Black Label Society is a different kettle of fish and you know it. I totally agree with you that Zakk writes 99.9% of BLS material, does all the singing and guitar widdly-wankery. But again I have to ask you, when has he ever used BLS as a soapbox to piss and moan about someone who has pissed him off - I'm not talking about government here, I mean a proper person or persons.

While we are on about it, let's look at Deicide. Do you agree that Glen Benton is the main man of that band? Has he not pissed and moaned about the Hoffman brothers at every opportunity for what seems like forever? Yet is 'The Stench Of Redemption' chock-full of songs on how the Hoffmans have dumped on him - Nope.

So you see, you really haven't got the gist of what I've been on about. Sure Amy Lee is frontperson of Evanescence and she writes most of the songs and stuff. My review reflected that she used the band as a soapbox to lash out at people who have pissed her off. Since this debate began, I have scoured the interweb for articles and reviews to see if anyone agrees with my review; and guess what:

Quote:
Since we last heard from the lead singer of Evanescence, with her previous album "Fallen" in 2003, she has lost more than just a few people who were close to her: during the tour for that album, Ben Moody, lead guitarist, co-founder and co-songwriter, left the band suddenly; William Boyd, the bassist, did the same three years later; and earlier this year, Lee ended a lengthy relationship with Shaun Morgan of the band Seether in a messy public breakup.

Lee alone is the main event on "The Open Door," the newest album from the band. Tumultuous relationships and loneliness manifest themselves clearly on the tracks, all of which are written by Lee in the first person. It feels as if each one is cathartic for her, and she seems to have a song for everyone.

"You know you live to break me," she accuses in "Sweet Sacrifice," apparently addressing Moody. "Are you still too weak to survive your mistakes?" A number of tracks appear to be aimed at her ex, especially the first single, "Call Me When You're Sober," and a piano number entitled "Lithium," which is sung from his apparently pathetic perspective. And in "Like You," Lee addresses her sister, who died in childhood, singing that she longs "to be like you, lie cold in the ground like you."

Rather than remain subsumed in the music and part of a larger experience, Lee grabs the reins of the musical production, making the album her own and relegating the rest of the band into obscurity. It is her voice that really gives Evanescence its edge. Her attitude on this album is more aggressive and less vulnerable than before. "I won't be held down by who I used to be," she sings in "Weight of the World."

Lee's predominance isn't always a blessing. Lacking her writing partner from the previous album, she collaborates with her new guitarist, Terry Balsamo, on a number of tracks. While she is clearly happy with the innovation, thanking her new partner in the liner notes as "someone who could finish my musical thoughts," fans might not be as thrilled. The musical content in this album leaves something to be desired.


Whoa, could have written it myself, only there's too many big words in it for me. (WTF does 'subsumed' mean??) There's more out there and many praise the album but almost without exception they all conclude that Amy Lee is singing about people who were close to her and have pissed her off. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised is Shaun Morgan sued her ass for defimation and insinuating he was a drunkard using 'Call Me When You're Sober' to do it.

My review was never about Amy Lee being the frontperson and writing most of the material for 'The Open Door'. simply the fact that she used Evanescence for something that I feel was personal and if she wanted to get all that personal shit off her chest she should have done it as a solo project!


Jon damn sure uses Iced Earth as his own soap box for history lessons or whatever else he is into. If someone in the "band" said hey John can we skip the patriotic bullshit on this album they would be out. Crap album or not, shouldn't songs be about something meaningful?

Every single song Katatonia writes is about some kind of shit like that or a very fucked up news story and they don't get shit on for it.


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