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Is Norris' support a hit or a miss?
Hit 29%  29%  [ 2 ]
Miss 71%  71%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 7
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:15 am 
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MetalReviews Staff
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That's ok I have to be up early so I'm going to bed.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:04 am 
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Metal Slave
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rio wrote:
A few things.

Firstly, what happens politically in the US affects everyone. I'm sure you know this, so I'm not sure what offends you. There is no denying this, and I'm not going to apologize for believing I have a right to talk about it. Just as I feel I have a right to talk about political developments in China and India, as these are going to start affecting us all pretty soon as well.

Secondly, the USA is huge, and astonishingly diverse. In terms of being well situated to speak about the situation in different parts, I'm not entirely sure that someone in the rural deep south is going to understand issues that are held as incredibly important in San Francisco more deeply than a someone from London would, for example. Similarly, a British farmer is probably going to be more qualified to talk about US farm subsidies than a hypothetical San Franciscan, for example.

Thirdly, I currently live in America, and work and do research in America. So I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I do have a level of knowlede about some of the problems you have.


Rio, I probably took a couple of the comments you made out of context. I'm not offended that you, or anyone else, would take an interest in our policies, and I am aware that they do have worldwide effects. The difficulty I have is that so many Americans don't even realize or understand what is happening in this country. Often times, "simple solutions" are thrown out in discussions like this such as "let's be more socialized like Europe" or someone will take a firm, all encompassing stance based on one or two issues that are particularly important to them. More to the point, what I think is necessary for the US isn't what might work in the UK or somewhere else and vice-versa. And I think I misinterpreted a couple of things you said earlier and didn't give you the benefit of the doubt for just taking a serious interest in the subject.

I completely agree with you about the varying degrees of interest on issues and positions that varies from state to state, region to region, country to country, etc. That is much the reason why I prefer to see more power returned to the states and less blanket legislation by the federal government (not to mention that most of what they're doing violates the 10th Amendment).

And yes, I was aware that you are in the US for a few months (DC area, if I'm not mistaken). I hope your experience is a positive one, though I can only imagine it will be filled with some negatives as well. Again though, being in DC for a few months only scratches at the surface of issues here unless you voluntarily dig deeper. I think it would be hard to go anywhere and really get an accurate picture of what all is going on there; I feel that way just going from state to state here. And again, I think that's part of why so many issues should be state issues, not federal ones.

But when federal elections come about the emphasis is on everything at a federal level, we start talking about which states will vote which way, which candidate embraces this or that or what voters he'll get or not get, etc. etc. And it shouldn't be that way really because so must of that should be state issues. ... I think many, if not most, people here don't realize that or have forgotten that, and so I can only imagine how it appears from the outside as well. Personally, I think the entire climate surrounding our presidential elections is confusing and misleading to citizens here and people watching from around the world (and to be honest, I find the whole thing to be quite embarrassing at this point).


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:31 pm 
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Well, I still disagree with you, Tyrion, to a certain degree, because the issues that I believe are most important are global issues. Your point about the diversity of situations across the US meaning that states should have more autonomy is certainly valid. However, to me these divisions and diverse interests are ultimately not determined by geographical features such as who is in what state, but horizontal features that are just as relevant regardless of where you are. The advancement of labour is the issue that is most important to me, not just in the UK, or not just in Europe, but worldwide. And I am just as interested in the problems of exploited US workers as I am exploited British workers. To me an American labourer is a labourer first and an American second, just as surely as a Mexican labourer is a labourer first and a Mexican second. And of course, the same goes for Britain. Similarly, I would view a British CEO and an American CEO as CEOs, plain and simple.

I don't believe this is just me being an ideologue; labour issues ARE global. What goes on in the Chinese labour market, for example, very directly affects what goes on in the labour markets of other countries, especially America.

So I'm not claiming to have an intimate first hand experience of American issues, but what I am saying is that a great many of the points raised by candidates in this election are not just US issues. Look at DEA's posts, she is talking about economic recession. This will impact the rest of us just as surely as it impacts you, so for many people worldwide Ron Paul's views on it are just as important for them as they are for US citizens.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:50 pm 
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Ist Krieg
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I'll admit to failing in terms of economics, but I can't see free market tactics helping America. Unbridled capitalism has only led to federal programs being mixed up too much with corporate agendas (ex: American penal system) and other things (ex: gas prices, overpriced commodities in general like $30 t-shirts) to lose their foundation in moderate and respectable prices and value.

Capitalism has left America only concerned about the money and profit from social programs and not about the actual people it sought to help. America needs a total revision of these programs, in my opinion, if it intends on lasting. Blurring America's goals with corporations' goals is something that free-market tactics will only encourage.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:22 pm 
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Breaking the corporate grip on political power will do much good, here as well. Brown's put this country on the road to ruin with all his Thatcherite policies in the 90s like mass privatisation, and the economy's headed for a major tumble in my view.

Still, no economic growth = good for the environment, so bring it on. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:57 pm 
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Ist Krieg
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Romney: "They're trying to create a new religion, SECULARISM! We will never be a secular country, we are a CHRISTIAN country!"
Doesn't he and that filth Huckabee realize how against the founding fathers that is?

Anyway, I really don't know who I'd vote for if I could. Probably Obama. Colbert, if there existed some remote possibility that he might actually win.

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I am not here, then, as the accused; I am here as the accuser of capitalism dripping with blood from head to foot.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:04 pm 
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FrigidSymphony wrote:
Romney: "They're trying to create a new religion, SECULARISM! We will never be a secular country, we are a CHRISTIAN country!"
Doesn't he and that filth Huckabee realize how against the founding fathers that is?



Doesn't that make America a borderline Theocracy?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:13 am 
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Metal King
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Sorry for ruining the seriousness of the thread, but "Chuck Norris supports Mike Huckabee", man that's another hilarious Chuck Norris joke right there...


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:54 am 
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Ist Krieg
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Stephen Colbert is running for president only in South Carolina and his book is funny.

I hate when people say "America is a Christian country". Doesn't that just contradict the melting pot idea and not to mention most of the founding fathers were deists, simply the Enlightenment edition of atheism.


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