Metal Reviews

i'm sorry... i didn't understand most of your post cuz I don't have a vagina. I have balls of steel

As I already pointed out, burkas should not be allowed for safety reasons - it's not allowed to conceal one's identity in public by hiding the face. The same reason why i can't wear a skimask or KKK clothes in public. And would you feel comfortable if you sat next to a guy in a skimask? Would children in school be comfortable with a school teacher in a burka? No, fucking way, Hozé!
If you think I'm bad, then the Netherlands must be bad also, cuz they have banned burkas already, despite only 25 women wore burkas in that country. I don't think there's more than a handful of them either in my country, i've never seen any - but i can imaging some women wearing them in the ghettos.
You can consider the burka ban as a new element.. there! it's not that bad now, is it?

Have you even socialized with women in burkas yourself? No I don't think so either.

Besides, i don't like what the burka stands for, and it is a step in the wrong direction for not not only women but also society in general.
Muslims are already causing enough commotion in our school system, because they are not allowed to do this, and they are not allowed to that because of their fairth - most often it's a matter of small ridiculous issues. Of course not all of them, second and third generation immigratants are better at tolerating our way of life, many of them don't even consider themselves as being muslims.
It is not our fucking duty to adjust our culture and education system etc according to them. We have ourselves and our own cultural heritage we have to take in consideration first, and we are not that big a country either.

What causes the most trouble is the fact that most danish ppl are protestants - we believe that religion belongs in the private sphere, it should not be apparent or dictate anything in school, at work or in politics. The way it should be.

this discussion is pointless anywho. There is not that many women wearing burkas in the west, or at least in scandinavia. You can say what you want, my views on the burka will stay the same.. nah nah

Just out of interest Astaroth, didn't Denmark publish a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammad? I remember an uproar, so I guess tensions between the Danes and most muslims can't be great.

What I'm saying is that Danish culture probably pisses the muslims off and vice-versa, it all depends on which side of the fence you were brought up on. That's not a slant against you, but I suggest thinking of things from the other side of the fence may help understanding. Imagine if you lived in Sudan and you were a know Dane to much of the neighbourhood you lived amongst.

You'd want to keep your national identity whilst adapting to a new culture, but because of the cartoon thing, I'd imagine you'd be tarnished with the same brush as the publisher of that 'toon and probably victimised because of it.

Personally I think people can represent themselves however they choose, certainly in their own countries. However I agree with Sasheron's because the world is one large melting pot and life's too short not to experience different places and cultures.

I'm looking to work in Australia, South Africa & China when I become a fully qualified teacher. I'll embrace the culture and I'll look forward to the challenge but I would expect some prejudice to be thrown my way because of UK policy (i.e Iraq). I hope those cultures are more forgiving that the ones we are brought up in.

There are differences between Middle-Eastern and Western culture, but I think the main difference is that if a muslim newspaper posts cartoons making fun of the Holocaust, 9/11, William Tell, WHATEVER, I don't feel the need, urge, or desire to go on a rampage calling for the death of the cartoonist, publisher and editor.

In some ways I agree with the logic you make because like many you're a rational human being. However, if something distasteful like a jokey cartoon of 9/11 was published in, say Iran's national newspaper and the USA got wind of it, wouldn't there be an uproar in the US, or at least by New Yorkers?

The level of reaction in the States may or may not be the same, but some people would feel like bombing the shit out of that Newspaper - it's easier for western civilisation to sit behind far more advanced weaponary.

Compare that to people venting their frustration on the streets. They know (apart from UNRELATED terror attacks by extremists) they can do fuck all about it due to knowing they'd have the shit kicked out of them by a onslaught of clever weaponary if they declared war on the USA.

Besides, it wasn't their fault a freelance journalist was there to take the pics to send back to blighty for a nice pay day. Hear no evil, see no evil? Check your media coverage and notice how many sick things your culture did today was left out.

Who is more civilised?

I don't know how the general tension is. I have had no problems as such. The last two years I went in a class with two other religious muslims originating from Libanon and Pakistan, one with scarf and one without. I had no problem with them, only if the discussion was about religion vs science.. bah. The one from pakistan had cut her connection to her family because she married a danish catholic guy, which pissed off her family.
There was another muslim guy who started on the course back then, he complained alot about danish ppl because we weren't religious enough or something stupid like that, he later quit the education.

The medias also contribute to the image of danish ppl and muslims not being able to get along at all. But that is not case. Sure thing, we have huge problems with ghettos, that way you wont get integration but mere segregation making the cultural frictions anything but smaller. We also have troubles with young immigrant gangs beating ppl up for no reason. But it depends alot on their cultural heritage. Whenever there is trouble it is mostly ppl from palestinia or certain other countries from the middle east. We have had other muslims from countries such as bosnia before muslims from middle east and africa came pouring in. The cultural friction is not the same. It also depend on the attitude and religious self understanding of those who gets inside the country.

But I can perfectly say, that our country has moved to the political right when it comes to letting new immigrants into our country, yes, even a muslim politician leader. We want tight rules.
However, most ppl are fed up with DF, a political party that wants to descriminate immigrants (read muslims) and treat them as shitty as much as possible.

If I was me, and I think I am, I wouldn't even be in Sudan the first place. I would have to adjust myself too much to my own liking. A cage for the mind.
I don't care about the "toonbrush", I hardly daubt their sense of humor could piss me off. I've seen some of the contest they have had down in the middle east, some place they even tried to piss us of by making "funny" drawings of our king.. and we don't even have a king, and that guy who is supposed to be the king, well.. we hate him too ourselves.. wtf?! Is that the best they can do?!

Besides, there was done nothing wrong when it comes to the cartoon. We have freedom of speech in my country. That's the way our country work, and limiting that because of some muslims would be very wrong, we have had fanatic christians complaining too in the past - didn't help them either.
The "muhammad cartoon" that was most offensive to muslims was a man wearing a pig-nose, anyway. That "cartoon" was not even in the newspaper, but just a picture of a french guy brought along by "danish" Imams to piss off other muslim leaders in the middle east. We shouldn't adjust our culture to some culture outside our boarders either.

A norwegian christian paper also did publish the cartoons...funny enough...they burned our fucking embassy though. not cool

That reminds me of that South Park moment.

Cheers for the correction on the publication, I could have wikipedia'd it I suppose. I agree with the point you made about if you lived in the Sudan and comparing it to being trapped in a cage. I'd love to visit Muslim countries but I'm afraid I succumb a bit to media fearmongering - I'd be fearing too much for myself. I must admit Astaroth you made some valid points in your post, so I retract certain tones if I came over wrong.

I strongly agree with the influence of the media in our countries. I remember when the BBC covered Saddam's hanging, they conveniently missed out the USA touting him as Iraqi leader in 1980 (ish?) and the super gun the UK was building him in the 80s. Essentially, I detest censorship and propaganda. OK, don't feed horror stories pre-watershed, but don't patronise the people with bullshit tales of how bad another country/religions are without judging our own home first.

You telling me that a British soldier in Iraq hasn't murdered an Iraqi in coldblood? Raped an Iraqi woman? Killed a child? Sure, I don't want to hear about it, but you can't tell me that shit has never happened. BTW, I have friends who have been to Iraq and they know there's bad shit there. We don't hear about it, but it's funny how certain Muslim countries do get a bit irrate over the Allied occupation.

The sewer piping where if all the bits were put together, it convienently looked like a massive gun capable of firing shells hundreds of miles? I heard about that. There was no official explanation for the whole thing, if I remember correctly.

hmm... I thought you were kinda diplomatic


oh yeah..



that is a problem... if the world is one large melting pot, then there would be no different places or different cultures in the end. But it's true nonetheless, despite we try our hardest not to end up in the melting pot.

Yeah I think Fridge's example is dumb... if a middle eastern country published a joke about 9/11 the US would flip. Also a lot of their resentment/touchyness towards Western countries comes from hundreds of years of colonization and continued support of Israel etc =\

That's the one!! It did kinda get swept under the carpet fairly swiftly and because it's out of mind, it's long forgotten. Of course I don't want to suggest conspiracy theories in addition to my rant on the media...



Cheers!! I try not too say anything that may entice a flame war, so diplomacy is my policy!!! (memories of a bygone day and rows over Dragonforce and Fred Durst Appreciation...)



Yeah, I like the theory of one great melting pot and I do want to check out as much as the world as possible, but, like I mentioned in my other post, I would have fear if I went to specific muslim countries simply because of the tension that has been greatly intensified since 9/11. Shame, but maybe one day...



Absolutely noodles. It's funny but I'm studying Sociology and History at the moment and I can relate to a lot that has been said in this thread. For History I'm dealing with Nazi Germany, which is nice and relates to my properganda blurbs. You're quite right to point out that there is a lot of resentment over the examples you gave.

In a different context, there will always be a lot of resentment between the Germans & British because of the wars, but it's long gone so why can't we forget? The context is different yet the feelings run deep. Is it because we Brits and Germans look alike that racial tension doesn't flair up often (unless there's a football match between the two)? Maybe people need bad guys in the world and someone to blame...

I am not out to change your opinion. Being an ignorant ass and ignoring counterpoints is not doing you any good though. Arguing is an exercise in thinking. If you don't understand my post, ask. I addressed the issues you mentioned in your post.

Your reasons for disliking burkas:
1. It makes you uneasy. To that I said - 'Harden the fuck up', implying that to be an excuse and not a valid reason.

You know what makes me uneasy? Large coats. And tall boots, you can hide knives in those. Also, I don't like bottles because they could contain vitriol. Clothes altogether. Let's ban clothes, bottles, bags and bodily orifices. Most non-suicide, non-elaborate bombings are done by pretending to forget a bag in a crowded area or dumping a bomb in a garbage bin. We can ban those. If you start banning clothing that can conceal something, you better be consistent.


2. Security
Outdated, insufficient reasons.

Security laws that target a certain population don't help - mostly because if people with burkas are continuously suspected, then the terrorists will switch to other methods and undue suspicion will always be sent the wrong way. Banning one potential method destroys freedom and doesn't help. Racial, gender and age profiling are an outdated, failing concept because those things can be evaded. It is important to profile based on the characteristics that all terrorists and all bombers will almost inevitably share, such as suspicious activity, uneasiness, inconsistent story and attempting to conceal cargo.

3. You just don't agree with it.

I don't agree with many things that are perfectly legal and accepted without a second thought. I don't agree with what the Christian cross stands for, or a right-wing t-shirt, or a shaved head, docs and Screwdriver patches. I don't agree with what a t-shirt promoting alcohol stands for. I don't agree with what the traditional marriage ceremony stands for. Handing over of the bride from the father (as property) to the husband (as property). I wouldn't dream of legislating against those things because I'd have to be a pompous, egotistic bastard to do that. It would badly distribute freedom, and freedom is vitally important.

Freedom is weird. If you take away some freedom, you create freedom in a different area. Those freedoms are however unequal. It is up to the law-makers to legislate for the better, more widely applicable freedoms. For example, freedom to punch people takes away people's freedom to live without unreasonable fear of attack. Hence, we must legislate against punching people because the second freedom is considered to be better and applicable to most people.

Freedom in certain areas and restriction in others is what encourages the moral and legislative growth of a nation. People will tend to extend in the permitted directions and for most part avoid the prohibited parts. Restrictive legislation stunts that important growth and mangles it in the long run.

Legislating against harmless things on the basis of non-essential values is harmful. It encourages people to break the law, and when they break harmless laws, they will also tend to lose respect for laws which are actually essential, creating more disobedience.

Also, who the hell cares for cultural distinctions? I wouldn't bat an eyelid if all cultures suddenly melted into one because I don't think race, gender or culture is a significant factor for identity. Culture just doesn't matter to me that much, but it does to some and they do their best to preserve it. Most however don't mind borrowing from other cultures, especially clothing and cuisine. In practice, there will always be different cultures, even if they are less true to their roots. Cultures merge, borrow and disappear all the time and the world didn't blow up. Seriously, why would that be a problem?

he he you're a feisty little girl

well.. if you don't care about your what your culture belong to, why don't you just move to Saudi Arabia and try to develope your identity there? Their culture is just as good as yours, it really doesn't matter where you live, right? Sure thing, you might get a rock in your face, but hey! it just make identity more challenging - more fun! yeAaaaH!
To think that gender, race and culture has no big influence on identity is the most naïve i've ever heard!!! ahaha.. the only reason to think so would be if you were a rebellious "teenager" still experimenting with your identity - thinking that you are above the material world (or at least you put an effort into being so), all too fancy up high in the sky above normal behaviour. I thought so too a long time ago.

But, i tell you what... back in the 70's in my country ppl started to become afraid of loving their culture and their homeland, due to fucking relativistic hippie crap!! - the result was that ppl started to feel rootless, alienated and the feeling of belonging dissappeared, that's why the suicide rate went up during the 80's.
The school changed after that, it didn't become nationalistic as such. But knowing your cultural roots is very important. And all relativistic garbage is left out. My country should not be muslimized in any way, it should stay the same, no matter what crazy Immam say

I bet you also want every country in the world to have nuclear weapons, since everything can be reasoned with "harden the fuck up!" and "oh?! so it makes you uneasy?!"


And this is still a ridiculous conversation. Most women wearing burkas did not chose to do so themselves. "But uh no!" Let them keep them, let them have their arranged marriaged, let them keep their householdjob, and don't ever let the sun touch their skin. Cuz we wouldn't want to take away her parent's or her brother's freedom Si palamos!!


the only reason why anybody would want burkas would be to hide a face like this:

Basically all of the tension in the Middle East comes from the conflict over control of Israel/Jerusalem between the Jews and the Palestinians. If we could find a way to resolve that, I think that a surprising number of our problems would be solved as a result.

Oh, of course - it's the darn Jews again! Even if somehow peace was arranged on a permanent basis in Israel/Palestine, there'd still be troublemakers on both sides raking things up. Saying that peace in that region would bring peace to the whole Middle East is a tad silly, surely.

And Kim, she's kicking your ass and making you look silly. You've stopped trying to make a serious argument and are approaching true daftness. I'd retreat whilst I could, were I you.

Plus the fact that it would not make dictatorships in Saudi Arabia, Egypt or Syria any less repressive, and it wouldn't solve anything in Iraq. Nor would it stop the West trying to find a justification for war with Iran. It might drain some support for Islamism from Palestine itself, but probably not anywhere else.

Anywhere with that much oil is always going to be in trouble.

Haha Mr. "I don't read your posts and can't understand shit but still feel the need to post in threads I shouldn't even come close to because I just lack background". I'm 20. Not girl. Not little. You're a condenscending dick.




WRONG CONTEXT BITCH

Not no influence on identity, no part of identity. The things you did, your name, your memories, race, gender etc are interchangeable. The only thing that comprises your identity is your first person point of view. If I was to leave my body and become embedded in a different body, I would feel weird but I would know that I'm me because of first person point of view. My identity is the thing that only I could ever know. Those other factors are things that connect you to other people, but honestly, there is only one thing that is distinctly you, and that is your first person view. As such, mixing cultures cannot destroy or damage identity because those have nothing to do with each other.



Stunt social progress? A nationalistic point of view doesn't make me feel connected to anyone. Nationality is for most part accidental. Gender, race and age are accidental, I did not choose them. Other people didn't choose them either. Feeling connected to people on the basis of accidental factors seems stupid to me. I like to connect with people who are my coleagues, fellow metalheads and environmentalists. My countrymen? No.

Also, correlation is not causation and what proof do you have that lack of nationalism made the suicide rate rise? Numbers please.



No, I believe that hardening the fuck up means abandoning irrational fears and dropping excessive defences. It means life with no unwarranted fear. You're afraid of people who cover their face? HTFU.


And take away her freedom to maintain her cultural and religious identity, something you and many others see as important? Hypocrisy much?

Oh man, I wish I had Hypocrisy on my mp3 player right now.

I do make serious arguments! And I do think i'm right and she's is wrong.

you just try to sillyze my arguments because you disagree or don't understand them. I agree, I don't write my arguments in the most academic way, though. I care about the presevation of my culture, certain principles of sercurity and equality among the men and women. That you two don't, is okay - you are obviously more busy about trying to be as open minded as possible while wasting my precious time on trivial matters concerning nobody. Funny enough you and I would probably have taken opposite roles on this matter a year ago or so when you hated "bat shit muslims"

To summarize: I don't want burkas in my country, there's hardly any, women can wear burkas as much as they "want" outside my country - not my problem! My country is my country, god damnit!!!! I can vote here, you can't end of story!



goodnight

WTF



This is why we should get rid of the concept of the nation and reconstruct global society as a network of autonomous worker's collectives. Boo, I say. Boo and hiss.