Metal Reviews

No, there's style, and attitude which Darkthrone and yes, even Satyricon still have. CoF play Black Metal without either. Not that that makes them bad, but it does mean that they can't touch DT for atmosphere.

The thing is, Dimmy and Graveworm aren't really black metal at all... black metal is Tenebrae in Perpetuum... Funeral Fog... Valefar...
Burzum... Carpathian Forest circa 93 or so... Graven... Branikald... Belketre... Mutiilation... Nastrond....Arckanum... just a few examples.
As for bands that employ synths; Sorcier des Glaces, Xasthur, Burzum, Thor's Hammer, Graveland... there is a stark difference in the way these bands and Dimmy, CoF, etc. approach their craft.


I always found Dimmy's riffage to be very far removed from the high end tremolo picking of black metal. And there is a lot of melody in raw black metal; listen to the main riff in Darkthrones En Vind av Sorg off of Panzerfaust, or Funeral Fogs Under the Black Veil, for example.
But it is not merely the riffs, it is the whole aesthetic; black metal, for the most part is a minimalist endeavor. It is (obviously) very dark, not pompous or jaunty. Comparing black metal to bands like Dimmy, Cof, Bal-Sagoth, etc is like comparing early German expressionist films to modern day CGI blockbusters such as the Mummy Returns or what have you.
also, you can actually read Dimmy's logo, a violation of rule number three, I believe...
Though I'll admit I do find CoF's logo quite pleasing to behold. Very nicely done.

This thread turning out the way it did seems to be an inevitability.

Indeed. CoF is Vampiric / Gothic metal, not Black metal.

Stop the namedropping please, you're so eager to prove yourself it makes you look like a douche.

You can like CoF all you want, but it's not black metal. Get over it. Dani Filth, everyone's favourite alcoholic midget, only uses the black metal image for its controversiality. While most people can look past that image, take it for granted, and enjoy or disapprove of the extreme gothic metal they make, there's still a few dimwits who remain shallow enough to think themselves a "tr00 blekk metle fan" by listening to CoF, and, heaven forbid, rating their non-black metal music as more black metal than actual black metal music

What the hell is "Vampiric Metal"?

And Gothic Metal is for me more Paradise Lost or early/late HIM.

But (the current and early) Cradle of Filth is a much different beast compared to these bands.

Hm, all this names are sounding like NS Black Metal (and I think many of them are) and I don't know if they are good examples for music bands in general.

And what about Bands like Watain? Or Dissection? Abigor? Sonic Reign? Immortal? Bathory? Or Venom? Early Destruction? Early Sodom?

Norwegian BM is not the only Style. BM is IMO as varied like any other genre in Metal.



And saying the current Dark Throne Albums are Black Metal is like comparing Six Feet Under with AC/DC.

BTW. I will take back Satyricon, because the Age of Nero is IMO again more Black Metal, compared to Now, Diabolical.

EDIT: And is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yupYgiXW7Dc from the style (aside from orchester sound) soooooooooo much different to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gskOZ0aKKM8 ? (I know that the original sounds different, but that's the piont IMO)

There may be a few I listed that are NSBM, the majority are not, ; what's your point?



What about them? they are a fairly decent black metal band, a bit polished, but they are still black metal.



It's been a long time since I've listened to dissection, but I remember them being a hybrid of some black and some death.



Meh.



The first album is pretty decent; after that, no longer really black metal. Epitome of so-called Norsecore.



First few albums, of course black metal (first wave); after that, Viking metal.



Not so cut and dried... by today's definition / musical aesthetic, not black metal, though Welcome to Hell and Black metal laid the groundwork, and actually, back in the day, we did dub Venom (pre-Possessed era) a Black Metal band.
Still, Welcome To Hell and even Black Metal were raw, minimalist and uncompromising as it got.



Not much difference between early Destruction and latterday Destruction, other than a slight increase in production, now is there?
And besides, Destruction is pure Thrash.



Thrash.



Not sure how this is germaine to the discussion, because nobody claimed otherwise and at least half (more than half actually) of the bands I listed aren't even Norwegian.



Nobody said that new Darkthrone is pure black metal. What was said was that even new Darkthrone has more in common with black metal than anything CoF ever did.

So... what would you deem CoF to be?

this is my favourite quote about what Cradle of Filth play:

Man, there's only one retard in this thread and everyone except him knows who.

Yeah? Should I quote a DT Title? So fuck of and die!

If someone says that later Immortal are no real Black Metal, or later Emperor (Prometheus is as black as it's possible to be black in metal), then the I'm right with my prejudices against elitist BM maniacs.

Maybe they know what "True" Black Metal is, but they don't have a clue what REAL Black Metal is, and they only use their difinition of the genre to exclude anything else.

It's the same with the people who are saying that everything from Metallica after Kill em All is no Thrash Metal.

I'm not saying that COF are TRUE Black Metal. I never did. BUT they are - with this album - MORE Black Metal, than e.g. current Darkthrone.

And Black Metal, especially the second wave, was always about Blast Beats and dark melodies. And yes in Godspeed on the Devil's Thunder are many Thrash and Death and Gothic elements, BUT the main tenor is as dark as in any other BM Band AND Thrash, Death, Doom and Gothic are in every other Black Metal band too. Just listen to "A Blaze in the Northern Sky".

And for the "Vampiric" Metal pseudogenre...you know where the name "Bathory" comes from and what "Cruelty and the Beast" was about? The Vampiric theme was always in Black Metal. Even during the first Venom times. Or, you know what "Transilvanian Hunger" could stand for? Or where the "Carpathian Forest" is?

Sure? Listen to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS8MRQSY-aY or this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buy9I-nVGYo

"Black metal is the game I play
'cause no one show me the right way
I am a bloody Antichrist, only believe in bad
Spit at the church, Evil I get

Blasphemer. . . .
Rites of death, Return to Hell
I am Satan's child, attack you with Spell"
...

and this compilation shows what the roots were:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWPfNVAS ... re=related

'Off', rather.

Later Immortal has more in common with melodeath. And Prometheus is just such an unlistenable pseudo-prog wankfest no one gives a damn about it anyway.

Please explain the difference between true and real black metal.

It's worse, but it's thrash for a couple of albums. You already bored us to death over 10+ pages with that, so let's give it a rest.

No, you said it was MORE TRUE black metal.

So, Darkthrone's ABitNS album, which you would consider 'true' or 'real' black metal seeing as how they deviated from it the last trio of albums , is already not 'true' or not 'real' black metal because it contains elements from another genre?

Fine, so I guess from now on a band's genre is no longer defined by its music but by the lyrical content of its songs.

But it's still Black Metal. Just not with garage necro production.



I would say true [norwegian] Black Metal is something like Darkthrone Under a Funeral Moon and Transilvanian Hunger. But also Emperor's first album or Mayhem at that time.

Real Black Metal was the first Wave with Venom, Sodom, Hellhammer. And it is obvious, that Darkthrone are hailing now the first wave with their punk style.

[Whereas my real intention is, that the true madness is just stupid. It's all Black Metal, just a little bit different. But the elitist are defining "true" just to exclude others like Dimmu Borgir or COF.]




In german, I would say COF are "truer" - which means they are not really complete true, but more true, than the others. So I said more true. But not really true, because they are lacking the bad production.



Actually, it's funny that many elitists are calling it "true" but if they would be correct then it ain't so true, because there are many other influences like old Celtic Frost, but also Thrash and Doom.

And if you compare it to Transilvanian Hunger, it is very different.

So is it true or not? And does it make a difference? And why should COF not be Black Metal? There are dozens of reviews where the genre of Godspeed is named Black Metal or Melodic Black Metal or Gothic Black Metal or something like this.



That's a good point, because the difference between Motörhead and Venom or Diamond Head and Mercyful Fate are mainly the lyrical content and the image of the Bands.

But on Godspeed, the music IS for most of the time frantic Black Metal madness. And on Darkthrones FOAD or Satyricons Now, Diabolical the music is just NOT typical Black Metal compared to their own past records. Even "The Age of Nero" is more Black Metal than Now, Diabolical.

And just because COF went far away from the typical BM style on the last two albums, and everybody was mocking them, it's funny now, that today they are more BM than the former figurehead of the Trve Elite Black Metal Scene: Darkthrone.

Hmm... you know, "bad" production does not make tr00 bluk methulk albums. It's the attitude and athmosphere.

And has Godspeed not a dark and evil atmosphere? They have even again mostly original Black Metal like riffs and not Iron Maiden/Thrash like on the last 2 albums.

Playing in a minor key isn't all, you know.

Maybe playing in a minor key isn't all, and evil lyrics aren't all, and blast beats aren't all, and so on, BUT all combined on an album IS IMO enough to call it Black Metal.

Or since when is "attitude" defining a music genre???

Yeah, I'm sure. Dude, I've been listening to Sodom since the late '80's (more or less), and they are thrash. Roots? the whole Thrash / Death / Black triad was in it's adolescent stages at the time.
Is early Slayer Black metal, as well? Or Deicide, for that matter?
this discussion is becoming increasingly ludicrous. No offense, but instaed of arguing nonsense, you should sit back, keep quite and read what others are trying to tell you. You might actually learn something, who knows.

It's pretty clear that's not what he's here for...