Films watched recently... (CAUTION, SPOILERS)

heatseeker · **Posted:** Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:14 pm

Goat wrote:

Religululous? He's not funny, he speaks to obvious idiots, he repeats the sort of stuff that was old when Dawkins and Hitchens were saying it, and apparently in a couple of scenes he doesn't have the balls to respond to people to their face, but waits until he's back with his posse. Or so I heard.

Well, he speaks with both common believers and leaders of their respective religions, so it's difficult to say that he targets anyone. If you're an expert on atheism/agnosticism, his arguments might be old, but at any rate I'm not, so most stuff was new to me. Plus he's the first one to present this type of viewpoint in such a mass-market film. And I found it quite hilarious...so...I dunno, haha.

Goat · **Posted:** Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:17 pm

heatseeker wrote:

Goat wrote:

Religululous? He's not funny, he speaks to obvious idiots, he repeats the sort of stuff that was old when Dawkins and Hitchens were saying it, and apparently in a couple of scenes he doesn't have the balls to respond to people to their face, but waits until he's back with his posse. Or so I heard.

Well, he speaks with both common believers and leaders of their respective religions, so it's difficult to say that he targets anyone. If you're an expert on atheism/agnosticism, his arguments might be old, but at any rate I'm not, so most stuff was new to me. Plus he's the first one to present this type of viewpoint in such a mass-market film. And I found it quite hilarious...so...I dunno, haha.

Weeell, I'll probably end up watching and enjoying it. Just my inner film snob coming out again, haha.

Seinfeld26 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:30 pm

FrigidSymphony wrote:

Seinfeld26 wrote:

heatseeker wrote:

Religulous

Basically, a documentary by Bill Maher debunking religion. A lot of people here would seriously enjoy it--I thought it was very well done and I'm one of those people who gives religion a chance. He doesn't really deal with the actual existence of God, which is good because that is when things get more debatable. Instead, he focuses on the teachings of the religions themselves--Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Scientology, Mormonism. And, he does a really good job of making all of them look completely ridiculous (the only religion that really holds its own is Roman Catholicism). There are a few parts that are pretty hilarious as well--highly recommended!

I know a lot of people (both Christian and skeptic) who have seen this movie and had rather mixed opinions of it. Some thought Maher's Jay Leno-ish "street trips" were rude, some found historical errors in what he was discussing, etc. While others found the movie to be very funny and informative. I even know some fellow-Catholics who liked it. It should probably also be mentioned, for clarity, that Maher's an agnostic. Not an atheist (he himself has public denied the "atheist" label many times and even somewhat denounced the "religion" in one interview). Actually Heatseeker, based on one of your old posts, I got the impression that you were a theist. But correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyway, I saw Die Hard last night. I freaking love this movie, and I'll definitely be buying it on DVD in the future. Bruce Willis is da man! :dio:

Sure it's offensive, but why should religion be granted more respect than anything else?

Your opinion of religion itself is your personal business. But I think the issue is more about respect for somebody, regardless of his religious views. Taking issue with, say, the Christian religion itself is one thing. But disrespecting somebody simply for being a practicing Christian (even though he may also be a top ranking business executive, Harvard graduate, loving family man, etc.) is in pretty much the same league as disrespecting somebody for being black, if you don't mind me being a little (ahem!) "politically correct."

I actually agreed with Bill Maher on a couple things in that interview (particularly his comment about modern-day Christians needing to be more Christ-like).

Seinfeld26 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:36 pm

heatseeker wrote:

Goat wrote:

Religululous? He's not funny, he speaks to obvious idiots, he repeats the sort of stuff that was old when Dawkins and Hitchens were saying it, and apparently in a couple of scenes he doesn't have the balls to respond to people to their face, but waits until he's back with his posse. Or so I heard.

Well, he speaks with both common believers and leaders of their respective religions, so it's difficult to say that he targets anyone. If you're an expert on atheism/agnosticism, his arguments might be old, but at any rate I'm not, so most stuff was new to me. Plus he's the first one to present this type of viewpoint in such a mass-market film. And I found it quite hilarious...so...I dunno, haha.

That was actually one of the things that turned a friend of mine off to the movie. The way he was supposedly harrassing common/moderate believers, even when they never really did anything wrong.

traptunderice · **Posted:** Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:38 pm

Religious beliefs aren't comparable to skin color, right? One is a choice that one should expect to defend while the other is a shade of a spectrum that shouldn't even be noticed or recognized.

Afro_D-Shak · **Posted:** Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:54 pm

Just got back from seeing The Hangover, an overrated movie for sure but still very funny. The little naked Asian man locked in their trunk was hysterical. :lol:

Seinfeld26 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:01 pm

traptunderice wrote:

Religious beliefs aren't comparable to skin color, right? One is a choice that one should expect to defend while the other is a shade of a spectrum that shouldn't even be noticed or recognized.

I was just pointing out that discrimination against either trait qualifies as "prejudice." The same holds true for discrimination against atheists.

Goat · **Posted:** Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:03 pm

That's as ridiculous as calling me a bigot because I hate fat fucks.

traptunderice · **Posted:** Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:14 pm

Seinfeld26 wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

Religious beliefs aren't comparable to skin color, right? One is a choice that one should expect to defend while the other is a shade of a spectrum that shouldn't even be noticed or recognized.

I was just pointing out that discrimination against either trait qualifies as "prejudice." The same holds true for discrimination against atheists.

It's not prejudice. I don't hate people for being christians. I hate christians for submitting to a religion which I feel ruins the world, in a nutshell. No time to elaborate.

noodles · **Posted:** Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:29 pm

I saw some Bill Maher stand up and he made an unfunny joke about Columbine and it fell completely flat so he got mad at the crowd for being offended. It was like an IRL version of Michael from The Office.

Zeth · **Posted:** Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:09 am

traptunderice wrote:

Seinfeld26 wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

Religious beliefs aren't comparable to skin color, right? One is a choice that one should expect to defend while the other is a shade of a spectrum that shouldn't even be noticed or recognized.

I was just pointing out that discrimination against either trait qualifies as "prejudice." The same holds true for discrimination against atheists.

It's not prejudice. I don't hate people for being christians. I hate christians for submitting to a religion which I feel ruins the world, in a nutshell. No time to elaborate.

Hate leads to the Dark side. :ph34r:

cry of the banshee · **Posted:** Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:02 am

traptunderice wrote:

Seinfeld26 wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

Religious beliefs aren't comparable to skin color, right? One is a choice that one should expect to defend while the other is a shade of a spectrum that shouldn't even be noticed or recognized.

I was just pointing out that discrimination against either trait qualifies as "prejudice." The same holds true for discrimination against atheists.

It's not prejudice. I don't hate people for being christians. I hate christians for submitting to a religion which I feel ruins the world, in a nutshell. No time to elaborate.

The anti-Christian crowd are just as full of shit as the opposite end of the spectrum; anyone that claims they know about the what the origins (or what they are NOT) of the universe / life / death / the world are, are full of shit. Period.
Most people can barely manage their own lives, let alone "have it all figured out".

That being said, do you harbor the same feelings towards Muslims and Orthodox Jews? What about Hindus? What do you think of the Nation of Islam?
Or are you... whats the word I'm looking for... discriminating?

Goat · **Posted:** Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:01 am

Well, they've all been naughty at some point, but Jews have caused less bloodshed overall than Christians, so I'd think. Yeah, even with fucking da Ukraina up and removing their "glorious" pagan heritage.

rio · **Posted:** Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:51 am

I do find Bill Maher funny, especially given that he is a fellow Francophile. However he can be a pompous arse and perfectly typifies the "elitist liberal" stereotype, making it at least a little bit like reality.

I haven't seen his film but it wouldn't surprise me if it crossed the line from ridiculing religion to simply taking the piss out of people. Still, I bet there are laughs along the way.

Dago · **Posted:** Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:23 pm

I watched Halloween (Carpenter's version), and damn it's good!

Cú Chulainn · **Posted:** Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:15 pm

Seinfeld26 wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

Religious beliefs aren't comparable to skin color, right? One is a choice that one should expect to defend while the other is a shade of a spectrum that shouldn't even be noticed or recognized.

I was just pointing out that discrimination against either trait qualifies as "prejudice." The same holds true for discrimination against atheists.

Religion is a choice, like Mac or Windows, and can be ridiculed. Skin colour is not a choice.

Cú Chulainn · **Posted:** Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:19 pm

cry of the banshee wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

Seinfeld26 wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

Religious beliefs aren't comparable to skin color, right? One is a choice that one should expect to defend while the other is a shade of a spectrum that shouldn't even be noticed or recognized.

I was just pointing out that discrimination against either trait qualifies as "prejudice." The same holds true for discrimination against atheists.

It's not prejudice. I don't hate people for being christians. I hate christians for submitting to a religion which I feel ruins the world, in a nutshell. No time to elaborate.

The anti-Christian crowd are just as full of shit as the opposite end of the spectrum; anyone that claims they know about the what the origins (or what they are NOT) of the universe / life / death / the world are, are full of shit. Period.
Most people can barely manage their own lives, let alone "have it all figured out".

That being said, do you harbor the same feelings towards Muslims and Orthodox Jews? What about Hindus? What do you think of the Nation of Islam?
Or are you... whats the word I'm looking for... discriminating?

The atheist position does not make a claim to knowledge about things religion claims to know. The point is precisely that we cannot know certain things at this point in human history and scientific progress, and assuming false knowledge based on mythologies is harmful to society. My gripe is with Christianity and Islam specifically, because they're the two religions I come into contact with most, and with faith in general. Then, of course, certain religions have different faults which can all be discussed from a socio-political perspective, but that's a long and different argument.

cry of the banshee · **Posted:** Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:20 pm

FrigidSymphony wrote:

Seinfeld26 wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

Religious beliefs aren't comparable to skin color, right? One is a choice that one should expect to defend while the other is a shade of a spectrum that shouldn't even be noticed or recognized.

I was just pointing out that discrimination against either trait qualifies as "prejudice." The same holds true for discrimination against atheists.

Religion is a choice, like Mac or Windows, and can be ridiculed. Skin colour is not a choice.

No, but behavior is. Therefore, it can be ridiculed as well, no?

Cú Chulainn · **Posted:** Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:21 pm

cry of the banshee wrote:

FrigidSymphony wrote:

Seinfeld26 wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

Religious beliefs aren't comparable to skin color, right? One is a choice that one should expect to defend while the other is a shade of a spectrum that shouldn't even be noticed or recognized.

I was just pointing out that discrimination against either trait qualifies as "prejudice." The same holds true for discrimination against atheists.

Religion is a choice, like Mac or Windows, and can be ridiculed. Skin colour is not a choice.

No, but behavior is. Therefore, it can be ridiculed as well, no?

Sure, but although there may be a correlation between certain behaviour and certain cultural backgrounds, it is not an absolute causal relationship. Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

cry of the banshee · **Posted:** Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:27 pm

FrigidSymphony wrote:

cry of the banshee wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

Seinfeld26 wrote:

traptunderice wrote:

Religious beliefs aren't comparable to skin color, right? One is a choice that one should expect to defend while the other is a shade of a spectrum that shouldn't even be noticed or recognized.

I was just pointing out that discrimination against either trait qualifies as "prejudice." The same holds true for discrimination against atheists.

It's not prejudice. I don't hate people for being christians. I hate christians for submitting to a religion which I feel ruins the world, in a nutshell. No time to elaborate.

The anti-Christian crowd are just as full of shit as the opposite end of the spectrum; anyone that claims they know about the what the origins (or what they are NOT) of the universe / life / death / the world are, are full of shit. Period.
Most people can barely manage their own lives, let alone "have it all figured out".

That being said, do you harbor the same feelings towards Muslims and Orthodox Jews? What about Hindus? What do you think of the Nation of Islam?
Or are you... whats the word I'm looking for... discriminating?

The atheist position does not make a claim to knowledge about things religion claims to know. The point is precisely that we cannot know certain things at this point in human history and scientific progress, and assuming false knowledge based on mythologies is harmful to society. My gripe is with Christianity and Islam specifically, because they're the two religions I come into contact with most, and with faith in general. Then, of course, certain religions have different faults which can all be discussed from a socio-political perspective, but that's a long and different argument.

So you don't believe in god... why do you even have to have a "gripe" over it?
Why do even care what others believe?
You are talking about agnosticism, not atheism.

a·the·ism

NOUN:

a. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.

b. The doctrine that there is no God or gods

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/di ... ry/atheism

Pseudo-intellecual multi-syllabic bullshit doesn't impress me.
Atheism is the denial that god exists... can you prove this?

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