Metal Reviews

I'll let it go now...

BUT I respect you for admitting that you don't know shit about Kroda or what NS is when you wrote the review. A real shame too that such a beautiful album is reviewed by someone who throws in references to journeying hobbits and Nazis haphazardly.

But now it's a "joke," when it seemed too serious and critical to you if he was or was not a Nazi.

If you want to write a "controversial" review, get your facts straight first... you know.. like who plays what instruments (as I mentioned above) and leave the politics out of it. ESPECIALLY if you don't even bother to read up on it.

Do people write reviews like "Oh I believe Lars Ulrich voted REPUBLICAN last election... hard to believe a sellout drummer would side with corporate fat cats huh?"

Hails and welcome, Nattulv, BTW.

Thanks, sorry my first posts were a little harsh.

Again, if anyone enjoys pagan metal, this is a must. A bit more evolved than "Cry to me, River", and the songs are easier to digest and the production atmosphere a little lower but more "epic" sounding than "Fimbulvinter," which is very clean sounding.

As a history major, I've read some about the old Ukrainian - Polish - Jewish debacle. I'd like to read more up on it to become more familiar with Ukrainian Nationalism before I write another review similar to this one. I'd love to see your work Emperor.

I want to start from the beginning. Is that the right way to go with Kroda's discography if I loved this one so much???

Using cultural context to justify destructive behaviour is very politically correct of you, EBD. Why is it justifiable in the case of Ukrainian ultra-nationalism/NSBM, but not in the case of German NS? That was, after all, a product of crippling economic oppression by the winning side in WWI. Or what about Chechnyan terrorists massacring Russian schoolkids? Russia fucked over Chechnya just like it fucked over Ukraine.

Emperor, is there something I'm missing? If the problem really is a 'blood feud' dating back centuries then perpetuating the same attitudes seems even stupider on the face of things. Certainly stupider than veganism, anyway.

What do Kroda think about the Ukrainian Insurgent Army? That's the sort of question you should be asking.

The thing missing is that no one in these bands, that I know of, anyway, has massacred children, or promoted any sort of violence. Where is the destructive behavior in writing ultranationalist lyrics, exactly? And yes, Ukrainian nationalism doesn't appear to be particularly enlightened, I'll grant you that, but, peoples are historically slow to forget past injustices. I don't understand how anyone could make the assumption that mentalities in former USSR states could resemble those in the Western World.

Furthermore, Nokturnal Mortum ! = Kroda, Drudkh, etc.

And I have never and will never 'justify' destructive behavior.


PS: I thought recent German Historiography on the Rise of Nazism (Ian Kershaw, to name one) pointed more towards a German Center/Right fear of Bolshevism than Versailles peace terms.

Of course I appreciate that they don't actually do those things. Writing ultra-nationalist lyrics is only destructive if it functions as a propaganda tool for ultra-nationalism.



Nobody's making this assumption. But you can recognise that different places may incline someone towards different mentalities and still think that those mentalities are equally as stupid and destructive wherever you are.



No doubt that's correct- kind of a half-assed analogy I suppose. You take the point nonetheless.

Aren't we splitting hairs, as we always do on this topic?

You see this as more idiotic/potentially inflammatory than I do--that's fine as I in fact consider veganism the single greatest threat to the modern world.

I haven't seen anything idiotic/inflammatory in these bands' lyrics themselves (unlike the preposterously stupid lyrics of Nokturnal Mortum, which in the song 'Weltanschuung' actually wonders why the Nazis and Soviets couldn't have just held hands and sung kumbaya as all being proud members of the white race); and Kroda's/Drudkh's connections outside of their music are pretty unclear.

This comment is for Skiggath as well.

The Ukrainian Insurgent Army fought everyone (Germans, Russians, Poles) during the bloodiest war in history. They received warm support from Ukrainian clergy in their goal to at last establish a Ukrainian national state after centuries of oppression. Clearly they committed some atrocities, against the Poles in particular, and without condoning that: who wasn't committing atrocities in East Central Europe during the war? Drudkh dedicated a song to them, yes, but don't you think it was in celebration because they fought to establish a first state of Ukraine; instead of celebrating the murder of Poles?!

Well, part of the problem is that Drudkh don't talk about it at all, so all we're left with is this rather worrying support for an army that did indeed commit atrocities. From my reasonably objective point of view, it's that that makes them more dodgy than the usual rambling worry about whether that Hate Forest song with the word 'aryan' in it means that the band are Nazis. I know the region has a dreadul buried history and that no-one was pure - the fact that the holodomor isn't more widely known is pretty shocking, for a start - yet that doesn't make it alright, in my book.

The trouble is with the E European scene is that everyone is actually quite right-wing and nationalist, and since few bands actually come out and say 'hmm, yes, immigrants should be rounded up and shot' all that your average Metalhead has to go on is the company said band keeps, and the symbology that they use. Given that, and the politics of right-wing nationalism aren't a million miles away from something even more disturbing, you can hardly blame people for thinking 'looks like NSBM, played with NSBM bands, beaten up for being NSBM... probably NSBM!'

I've given my opinion on all this 'dodgy' music so many times that people probably know it by heart... I'll quite happily listen to Nokturnal Mortum and mock their whitebread silliness, and I'm not above listening to Cattle Decapitation track whilst enjoying something tasty made of pork. Heck, I don't agree with my favourite bands, Napalm Death and Rush, all of the time. Yet ultimately I think that if certain people around here are going to not listen to a band because of their politics, then surely said band's support for atrocity-committing groups is as bad as (if not worse than) playing at a NSBM festival? At least know what you're whining about, says I.

Veganism the world's greatest threat?

I think these bands want to have their cake and eat it. They want to send out dog whistles to far-right groups at the same time as they get credibility in the metal mainstream, so they perpetuate this whole vow of silence no interviews thing. And then they have neo-Nazi propagandists like the guy at Supernal advertise them as things like "radical traditionalist" or "anti-modern" instead of as plain old racists. So Drudkh are simultaneously racist standard bearers and a controversial-but-radical cutting edge interest for intellectual types who are into Nietzsche. They are anything you want them to be- very post-modern.

And big kudos for Goat for writing in objection to Terrorizer, who basically swallowed Drudkh's whole "strong silent type" routine whole. I do think a lot of the metal discourse has totally wussed out of calling bands with nsbm connections out. No, this does not mean I am supporting Antifa.

Anyway, don't really have much more to add, meself, time for lunch

Anyone with any knowledge of history will tell you that communism has been responsible for way more death, misery and destruction than NS.

Is communist based metal therefore "dodgy"?

I think it is, but then I raise an eyebrow at all manner of music that other people will have no problem with, so not the best person to ask...

Now, if you'd have said anarchist black metal... what's a few smashed windows here and there?

If you are referring to bands I have reviewed here recently e.g. Panopticon, Skagos, Jarost Marksa etc., then no.

All these bands are very explicit about what they believe, and they are all aligned with libertarian communism aka anarchism. The same politics as punk bands like Crass, Conflict, etc. Which, whatever its flaws, cannot begin to compare with "large-C" Communism or Nazism/Fascism in terms of blood on its hands. Let alone the combined efforts of various other forms of national imperialisms.

Even Jarost Marksa in interviews have said that they use Soviet iconography for aesthetic effect. Ideologically, again, they are closer to bands like Crass or Amebix.

So unless we are using an unacceptably broad definition of "communism", not guilty. I have certainly never knowingly reviewed Stalinist bands nor would I without making some mention of it.

How's things, Zad?
Been awhile.

yeah...

So long as we are clear that when we identify bands associated with RABM as "communist" we mean in the sense of egalitarian left anarchists rather than Sovietists, then I agree.

Ah. I wasn't really referring to anything you reviewed explicitly, just the ideology in general.
I would imagine, though I could be wrong, that many NSBM bands use the iconography in a similar fashion, since, as far as I know, they are not pulling people out of their park benches and beating them senseless, let alone murdering them.
Are there pockets of thigs that do such things? Of course, but there are thugs of all walks of life.

Whatver the motivations, the end result is the same, isn't it? Some say over 100,000,000 dead directly from communist dictators.
That is huge. And many till believe in violent revolution, so I would hazard a guess that it could be considered a far more destructive ideology than NS, which has been relegated to a very small minority.

Off to work; if this thread is still alive and kicking at the end of the day, I'll be back.
'Til then...