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 Post subject: The Censorship of Mark Twain
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:15 pm 
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Ist Krieg
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Haven't seen a thread yet, so here it is:

http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-t ... -word.html

Total and complete bullshit. They're taking out the word "nigger" because it makes people uncomfortable? Jesus, isn't that what literature is supposed to do? I hope this plan falls flat on its face, censoring one of the most important pieces of American literature is a stupid move by all accounts.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:20 pm 
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Einherjar

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I agree. If they do this they need to ban religious texts outright for the racism, sexism, beastiality, encouragement to keep slaves, selling daughters to prostitution, ect. They won't do that, so nothing needs to be amended to suit the sensibilities of anyone. Don't read it if you don't like it. Since the cream rises to the top, pulling it off the mandatory reading lists a school might have only hurts the stupid.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:02 pm 
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Ist Krieg

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The take over has begun.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:56 pm 
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Einherjar

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The hoopla about the use of "nigger" is a bunch of bullshit, but there's no debating that Huck Finn is a pretty racist book. Jim is presented as primitive and irrational, and is often shown as being overly superstitious and as needing guidance from Huck--a child. I'm not sure if it's the kind of book that, as an American, I want as one of the definitive works of our literary canon.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:10 pm 
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Ist Krieg
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heatseeker wrote:
The hoopla about the use of "nigger" is a bunch of bullshit, but there's no debating that Huck Finn is a pretty racist book. Jim is presented as primitive and irrational, and is often shown as being overly superstitious and as needing guidance from Huck--a child. I'm not sure if it's the kind of book that, as an American, I want as one of the definitive works of our literary canon.


Uh, what? Twain was one of the biggest advocates for civil rights in his day, and the book pretty much illustrates the ridiculousness of racism. Jim is more of a product of his circumstances than anything. And wether you want it or not, Huckleberry Finn is one of the most important pieces of American literature ever.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:10 pm 
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Ist Krieg

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heatseeker wrote:
The hoopla about the use of "nigger" is a bunch of bullshit, but there's no debating that Huck Finn is a pretty racist book. Jim is presented as primitive and irrational, and is often shown as being overly superstitious and as needing guidance from Huck--a child. I'm not sure if it's the kind of book that, as an American, I want as one of the definitive works of our literary canon.


It's utterly representative of the period--should we ignore it?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:22 pm 
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Ist Krieg

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Censorship and holding people back and playing make believe that something doesn't contain what it does contain is detrimental to our society and human beings.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:34 am 
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Fuck censorship.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:36 am 
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Ist Krieg
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heatseeker wrote:
Huck Finn is a pretty racist book. Jim is presented as primitive and irrational, and is often shown as being overly superstitious and as needing guidance from Huck--a child. I'm not sure if it's the kind of book that, as an American, I want as one of the definitive works of our literary canon.
Ummm there are a lot of books that do this same thing that count as canon. You must not read much literature do you?

The first hand account of why students might want the word changed:
Quote:
There were no African-American literature or history courses at Northern Michigan University, so when I learned that the concentration for American Literature III would include the Harlem Renaissance, I jumped into the course. Two months later and the only black person we'd talked about in the class was an uneducated slave named Jim in Mark Twain's book Huckleberry Finn, for which white students got to read the word "nigger" repeatedly aloud in class. I was the only black student in the class and after seeing the word in the book so many times, I continuously volunteered to read aloud because my ears almost bled from hearing the racial slur amongst white students. I can't stand saying the word, so I definitely didn't want to hear white people say it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:59 am 
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Ist Krieg
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Boo-fucking-hoo. What a cunt.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:06 am 
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Einherjar

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Agree with the general sentiment here. If you don't want to read it, don't read it. Taking the word out is getting into very dangerous territory.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:01 am 
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Einherjar

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I definitely don't agree with censorship in any way, shape, or form. I'm just recognized that Huck Finn is, in many ways, a racist portrayal of blacks. I don't dispute that the use of the n-word is historically accurate and not racist in itself, but the portrayal of Jim is. This just leads me to doubt its deserving of the status as a "Great American Work of Literature".


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:04 am 
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He's ignorant and superstitious because he was kept that way as a slave, for chrissakes, nae because he was black. I wonder if you're deliberately trying to read racism into things.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:04 am 
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Einherjar

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heatseeker wrote:
I definitely don't agree with censorship in any way, shape, or form. I'm just recognized that Huck Finn is, in many ways, a racist portrayal of blacks. I don't dispute that the use of the n-word is historically accurate and not racist in itself, but the portrayal of Jim is. This just leads me to doubt its deserving of the status as a "Great American Work of Literature".



You don't get it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:39 am 
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I can sympathise to some extent with what Heatseeker's saying - I'd feel uncomfortable saying the word in a classroom of whatever colour (as I'd assume everyone rightly would). But the answer is not to ban the word. There was a quote in the link in the OP which I agree with:

Quote:
Indeed, Twain scholar Thomas Wortham, at UCLA, compared Gribben to Thomas Bowdler (who published expurgated versions of Shakespeare for family reading), telling PW that "a book like Professor Gribben has imagined doesn't challenge children [and their teachers] to ask, ‘Why would a child like Huck use such reprehensible language?' "


A good teacher would use the word as an opportunity rather than a problem, discussing why it's uncomfortable, what the history is, and why some people want it banned. The commentor there who huffed 'might as well remove the sex from DH Lawrence!' is exactly right.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:32 am 
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heatseeker wrote:
n-word


Stop doing this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waehONGY-yI&feature=fvst

.:crast:.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:40 pm 
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slippery slope. please don't let this BS pass.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:36 pm 
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Just was watching some Simpsons and the children were burning books in the library and Skinner was pleading that they not burn Huck Finn because he just finished crossing out all the sass with a marker.

Frig is right but the problem is that although as a black in that day and age he was ignorant, every other portrayal of blacks in canonical literature that you might actually get to read in a general literature course is no different unless it's Tony Morrison basically. The Great Gatsby has like three pages in the entire book I think where black people are mentioned despite having scenes in New York City yet all they are described as ignorant or causing a raucous, I can't remember which. Black people are portrayed as borderline apes in intelligence or borderline beasts in their inability to refrain from violence and control their passions.

And as for saying boo fucking hoo, that's pretty immature/ignorant as a white male who has only lived in Western countries. Telling oppressed people that they are just being pussies is pretty comparable to the standard white America bollocks of pull yourself up by your bootstraps even if you don't have boots. Paraphrasing of course.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:48 pm 
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Ist Krieg
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traptunderice wrote:
And as for saying boo fucking hoo, that's pretty immature/ignorant as a white male who has only lived in Western countries. Telling oppressed people that they are just being pussies is pretty comparable to the standard white America bollocks of pull yourself up by your bootstraps even if you don't have boots. Paraphrasing of course.


Who's telling oppressed people they're being pussies? I'm telling that one student who wanted the word banned because he felt uncomfortable with it that he's being a pussy. Well, I actually called him a cunt, but fair do's. I don't give a shite about how uncomfortable he feels, personal offense is never a valid reason for censorship.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:04 pm 
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Goat wrote:
Quote:
Indeed, Twain scholar Thomas Wortham, at UCLA, compared Gribben to Thomas Bowdler (who published expurgated versions of Shakespeare for family reading), telling PW that "a book like Professor Gribben has imagined doesn't challenge children [and their teachers] to ask, ‘Why would a child like Huck use such reprehensible language?' "


A good teacher would use the word as an opportunity rather than a problem, discussing why it's uncomfortable, what the history is, and why some people want it banned. The commentor there who huffed 'might as well remove the sex from DH Lawrence!' is exactly right.


But the teacher could just mention that the book was censored and then have the same discussion.


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