Metal Reviews

But opinions only matter if they are public

i like how people who listen to music by murderous church burning nazis with silly pseudonyms and goofy make up are criticizing bands for drinking coffee and wearing jeans that fit itt

Yeah, because that's where the criticism lies.

Stick to shopping for purses, sugar plum, you're outside your safety zone here.

He was being reductive but that's obviously what the criticism comes down to. They aren't being true because they aren't misanthropic.

Distorting the original sound is a pretty bogus criticism, given what Mayhem and Emperor have done, and what Darkthrone currently does. Panopticon's inclusion of hardcore and punk influences is a damn mile farther than Darkthrone's lame output over the last few years since Cult is Alive.

I won't discuss whether I think it is black metal or not. But I am listening to Panopticon's first album right now and I am enjoying it a lot....I guess it is more black metal than anything else.

His lyrics aren't completely leftist either, I like how each song because focuses on a different topic...even a Nordic myth.

And noodles, shut up with the straw man. Debating and discussing black metal is obviously a big deal. Many of us would argue that it defined the 90s metal, and many others cite it defining the 00s metal in a different sense. There is also a generational and political side to these discussions which make them very heated. I make fun of you and trapt and heatseeker and the rest not out of dislike, but because I have to advocate on behalf of what classic black metal is and the Negura Bungets of the world whom get unfairly ignored because they are not part of this American scene.

Darkthrones latest have been of a punk variety as well, and naming a few bands whereas the bulk of most bm is influenced by Darkthrones material doesn't suit your point well. Do you honestly feel inclined to comment on a music if its post something, tediously experimental, or just suits your own political persuasion?

I tried talking about Concrete Musical Differences between nowadays American black metal and old timey classic black metal but nobody took me up on it so I made a dumb joke. srs point: saying stuff like those bands lack "genuine malice / sorrow / darkness / cold" is silly because those are four of the first words I'd use to describe WITTR or Weakling's music, and saying a band's emotion is genuine is saying that you like them, therefore meaningless if we're talking about Concrete Musical Differences.

Actually Weakling strike me mainly as really violent and angry, but there's a lot of malice and sorrow mixed in there too.

And defining musical genres by idealogies, even ones as vague as "misanthropy" is really lame imo. WITTR strike me as pretty misanthropic too since iirc they like that guy who says for the environment to be saved, most of humanity needs to be wiped out. And (iirc) they seemed skeptical of Nietzsche's claims that humans are capable of great things. And I associate the quote "we are all hypocrites and failures" with them.

Also I don't think Negura Bunget are really ignored. OM has just as many ratings as WITTR's albums on rateyourmusic!!

I was listening to Les Miserables today and thought "Life Has Killed the Dream in Me" would be a cool black metal or hardcore album name.

Well, since you say it's "silly", and those are the words that you use to describe WIITR or Weakling, I guess it must be true.
Please.


And whether or not an artists "emotions" are genuine or not has nothing whatsoever to do with whether you like them or not.
It may have something to do with how one relates to a given piece, but it says nothing about original intentions or authenticity.

I listen to WIITR, Weakling etc, and find them lacking. That goes for probably 80% of the USBM I've heard. I've been listening to this stuff for a long long time, and at the risk of sounding arrogant, I think I have a fucking clue as to what defines the genre, and what it is that is lacking in pretenders.
Of course they sound "black" to you, you listen to shit that makes Dimmy sound "black". Not necessarilly a put down or anything like that, just a bit of perspective. But you can take it (or leave it) as you like. It's always amusing when someone that listens to the polar opposite of black metal and doesn't even like black metal somehow feels like they are in a position to lecture those of us that have listened to it almost exclusively for a very long time on what defines the genre.

Defining musical genres by ideology is "lame", is it?
There is indeed a certain ideology and attitude that is inherent in black metal; "vague misanthropy" is only a very generic and minor part of it, and cliche to boot, regardless of what you may think to the contrary. That is one of the main differences between this oft maligned genre and others; it has an ideology, a very strict sense of tradition and a fidelity to purity that is religiously adhered to.

Listen, I wasn 't being facetious when I told you to stick to shit you know about.
Stating that black metal is defined by misanthropy exclusively is what is lame and demonstrates a lack of even the most rudimentary understanding of the impetus behind the genre and why it is listened to.

I think it would be slightly remiss to say that bm is politically aligned in its broadest sense. To me when I hear the older material the subject matter, atmosphere, and riffing all conveys at its most effectively the glorification of all that is dark about life. Stifling it to a political ideology whether it be hacks like Panopticon or Aryan Terrorism butchers the atmosphere and makes the experience less of an aural and pure ritual and more into some trite political sermon.

what are you, noodles mouthpiece?
It isn't "distorting the sound", it is the authenticity of the attitude behind the sound. Environmentalism? Really?
What's next, civil rights? Feminist black metal?


Emperor hasn't been black metal since 1994, for fuck sake.
As for Mayem, yeah, their post WLA output is a bit sketchy, but, their early material is 100% dyed-in-the-wool black metal.

Darkthrone >>> Panopticon, and that goes for their last few years, as well.

yeah, that sounds about right.

I'd also add that it was a reaction to modern consumerist society and the herd / slave mentality that drives it.
And to The Church, of course. Obviously it is anti-christian.

Funny that you mention it, but the biggest hacks are the ones that define themselves politically.
Coincidence?

'Tis so unfortunate that music genres describe music, things would be so much simpler.

But labels (genre definitions) do serve a pupose and syaing "it's *insert genre here*" is actually simpler than trying to describe the music.

I've just been making the same argument as him. Environmentalism isn't troo? Oh shucks. These bands aren't singing about daisies and sunshine and if they are it's in tracks like "Blossoms will sprout from the carcass". Panopticon is just talking about all out war and revolution yet it's not as "authentic" as a song called Chainsaw Gutfuck. Please, this is such bullshit; it's not my style of black metal so it's not black metal. You have to create a straw men of flowers in their hair hippie black metal in order to even make this argument yet it simply isn't that. Whatever, be obstinate. It's a worthless argument when you've reduced it to a subjective, 'it doesn't feel black metal to me' argument.

Did you ever think that I post on stuff that I listen to?

Yeah. You're right, V, Panopticon never sings about this kinda stuff. I get it now.

You don't fucking get it, just like in politics.
I don't give a damn what they are writing ABOUT, it is the motivation behind what they are writing about that comes across.

Are you trying to tell me that Panopticon is pure black metal?
They (he, whatever) employs some black metal elements, but that does not make it black metal. As soon as the word "progressive" prefaces the words black and metal (as an honest description, since you are such a stickler for semantics), then it is no longer black metal.
It has nothing to do with whether or not I personally like them (they are alright, nothing special, but not horrible). I can't stand Ildjarn, but it's fucking true black metal.
Same with Moonblood; I really only dig a small handful of Moonblood tracks, but they are truly black metal.

V, just wondering, but what would you consider Emperor's Anthems album, then?

What I heard of Panopticon today sounded better than anything late period Darkthrone has released. I have to put Panopticon (and to a lesser extent WIITR) in a different category from junk like Liturgy, Krallice, and Weakling.

Thank god someone hears me.

This purity you claim in your black metal simply isn't existent or is relegated too so few of bands that it doesn't matter. Panopticon isn't progressive. Yes, he plays a banjo in some tracks and he obviously has influences in hardcore but Darkthrone has influences from punk as it shows now. Panopticon draws more from Darkthrone than Amebix anyways.

These bands aren't "progressive"; they are simply playing black metal. At worst, it's not this pure black metal played by a few shit bands with trash can production like Ildjarn but I'll just cede the point that you can make that distinction where I never will.

Anthems?
Hybrid between black, progressive and death metal, I guess.

Panopticon, as I have said before is alright. Nothing to write home about. They just lack that undercurrent of malevolent darkness that defines the genre.
The whole anarcho / lefty / environmental activist bullshit is just an aside at which I find much humor in, is all.
And I strongly suspect that that is why it pumps trapt's 'nads so much.

Oh, it exists, alright. And in more than a few bands.
And, yes it matters.
And if you want to talk about "shit" bands, lets talk about WIITR and Krallice, shall we?
But fuck this conversation, I'm bored with it.