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I heard these guys a while back and thought they were just passable modern grind. Mightve been this album who knows.

Amber Grey is a sick album, worthy of mention in discussion alongside Discordance Axis. This album is a little weaker. It takes a lot to make eleven minutes into an awesome album. Amber Grey and Nails' Unsilent Death can do that, where this just doesn't have the hooks needed.

I haven't heard this, but surely 11 minutes can only qualify as an EP by anyone's definition.

Even for Grind, I would expect at LEAST 15 minutes before I even began to consider it a full-length, and even that would be a pretty big stretch. 20 minutes and up is acceptable for a Grind full-length.

This is a full-length album. 12 tracks at 12 minutes. EPs are either 25 minutes or 4 songs.

Some bands, like this, or Nails (which on a side note, you should check out Unsilent Death if you haven't, good sir) I wouldn't want to last longer than fifteen minutes. It's all about getting in, hooking you and making you want to snap your neck.

Very seldom does grind ever do that for me, in theory I should adore it being its fast, intense, and has everything that is requisite for me to enjoy it at face value but I was just listening to Phobia today and was like "Fuck this shit sucks". I guess Nasum is ok for a spin once in a while, but rarely if ever is this style worth anything more than a passing glance.

Do you like Cephalic Carnage?

Cruel is good.

Their mid era stuff to recent output is tech death not grindcore and yes.

There's an argument to be made for classifying it as "progressive deathgrind".

Anyway, I was just curious. That's usually the direction I would point someone in if I was trying to convince them grind was worthwhile.

Id rather just spin some older Discharge, thanks anyways. Besides I've known about Cephalic for years, Anomalies is great and the followup is decent but Misled by certainty is weak. Haven't heard anything before the Amenti EP though

Brutal Truth?

Extreme Conditions Demand Extreme Responses was good, but beyond that they don't write great hooks.

And I'm going to agree with Steve on Cephalic Carnage being tech death. But what distinction are we using between deathgrind and grindcore? The former being simply death metal lyrics while the latter have a political tinge to 'em? Or does deathgrind have longer songs or what? I don't mind the distinction lying in content honestly.

I think you are right on both counts, not well-versed enough to know which distinction is more prevalent though.

My favourite Brutal Truth is actually Evolution through Revolution, for whatever that's worth.

As for the distinction between grindcore and deathgrind, well I'm wouldn't say I'm any sort of authority on the subject, and as such could be completely wrong, but I would have said it's more a matter of structure than content.

While both sub-genres are inherently similar, Grindcore leans more towards a lack of structure, with punky sloppiness prevailing in the search for ever more brutal and aggressive output and a little more of a hardcore influence. Deathgrind takes the basic elements of Grindcore, mainly the extremity, speed, and similarly styled breakdowns but leans towards more Death Metal inspired song structures. Almost like trying to make form from chaos.

Don't know how well I've explained myself, but that's the way I've always looked at it.

That is actually the first definition that I have ever liked. When you listen to some of these grindcore bands, Gridlink is one of them that comes to mind, but also Discordance Axis or Graf Orlock or Cloud Rat, you quickly realize that they are building up tension but they aren't conforming to structure in the way that say Cattle Decap or Pig Destroyer might coming from a deathgrind camp. That makes it a little trickier to categorize early grind like Terrorizer or Repulsion insofar as they weren't viscerally intense but ultimately you can hear the punk influences in those bands.

On topic, can I just say that I prefer Discordance Axis to Gridlink? Does anyone listen to DA?

Good stuff as well. But these are all obvious mentions. I need to procure some fucking Skitsystem

I prefer Disfear to Skitsystem, albeit the one does d-beat while the other does grind. Skit were rather underwhelming. Then again maybe me not being an At The Gates fan influenced that impression?

I've always felt Deathgrind was death metal with some high pitched screams and some ultra blast beats. There is also Porn Grind, Gore Grind and Math Core stuff out there. True grind IMO draws it's influence from Speed, Punk, and Thrash Metal. I think for me Grind is a punk, speed, thrash, sludge, HYBRID with a tiny bit of doom influence also in some of the Sludge or Crust styles. It's one of my favorite styles of metal and almost no one else I know likes it. It's cool cause if you want people to leave just throw on some super offensive and obnoxious grind like ANB or some dark ass BM like Mayhem "Wolf's Lair Abyss" that'll get em going too. I can only play company friendly stuff like Stratovarious, Hammerfall, and AC/DC for so long before I'm ready to explode. I like those bands but I'm a sucker for high energy lewd and rude.

Merely hearing any Hammerfall or Stratogayrius is more offensive to me than any of the worst brutal death metal albums with women being sodomized by zombified pigs or fat guys being torn to shreds by evil robots. Europower in general is the gayest musical genre of all, even worse than modern pop music.